Coronavirus Outbreak...

[lilpixieofterror]

Your willingness to cast blame on those risking their lives to provide for our needs is embarrasing.

[oxmixmudd]

Pix, my wife is a nurse. She knows all about mistakes in hospitals caused by negligence and by arrogance.

That is no excuse for trying to justify Trump giving the meat packing plant owners a pass on liability and requiring workers to go to work in an unsafe environment or lose their incomes. People with attitudes like the one you are displaying is why organizations like labor unions and OSHA are critical and necessary parts of our government and society.

[firstfloor]

[lilpixieofterror]

Pix, my wife is a nurse. She knows all about mistakes in hospitals caused by negligence and by arrogance.

That is no excuse for trying to justify Trump giving the meat packing plant owners a pass on liability and requiring workers to go to work in an unsafe environment or lose their incomes. People with attitudes like the one you are displaying is why organizations like labor unions and OSHA are critical and necessary parts of our government and society.

[oxmixmudd]

Spare me your typical attempt to eschew moral responsibility.

Do yourself a favor. Go find passages in the Bible where people in the Bible make a complaint similar to 'who are you to tell us we are wrong" and see just what company you are keeping.

You are wrong to characterise what is happening at the meat processing plants as 'safety accidents'. They are not. And you are wrong to excuse Trumps removal of liability to create a safe environment from the plant owners.

[carpedm9587]

Spare me your typical attempt to eschew moral responsibility.

Do yourself a favor. Go find passages in the Bible where people in the Bible make a complaint similar to 'who are you to tell us we are wrong" and see just what company you are keeping.

You are wrong to characterise what is happening at the meat processing plants as 'safety accidents'. They are not. And you are wrong to excuse Trumps removal of liability to create a safe environment from the plant owners.

Not to mention, "some people won't follow the rules" is not a very substantive argument. We had over 15,000 murders last year in the U.S. By this argument, we should eliminate the prohibition against murder because "some people don't follow the rules." Indeed, by that argument, we should have no laws and no rules. There is always someone willing to bend/break the laws/rules. The argument fails before it even starts.

[lilpixieofterror]

Spare me your typical attempt to eschew moral responsibility.

Do yourself a favor. Go find passages in the Bible where people in the Bible make a complaint similar to 'who are you to tell us we are wrong" and see just what company you are keeping.

You are wrong to characterise what is happening at the meat processing plants as 'safety accidents'. They are not. And you are wrong to excuse Trumps removal of liability to create a safe environment from the plant owners.

[firstfloor]

Here at least, with everyone needing to avoid public transport, the electric bicycle is king. Scrap your planes, trains and buses.

[lilpixieofterror]

Not to mention, "some people won't follow the rules" is not a very substantive argument. We had over 15,000 murders last year in the U.S. By this argument, we should eliminate the prohibition against murder because "some people don't follow the rules." Indeed, by that argument, we should have no laws and no rules. There is always someone willing to bend/break the laws/rules. The argument fails before it even starts.

[oxmixmudd]

Here at least, with everyone needing to avoid public transport, the electric bicycle is king. Scrap your planes, trains and buses.

ebikes are great fun, though I don't actually have one. It's not all that hard to get range on them up to like 80 miles or more if you use a burley or similar trailer to tow extra batteries and supplies (and you have some semblance of fitness to supply 150 or so watts of human power). I've thought I might like to use one to re-ride the Blue Ridge Parkway in my later years when my knees likely won't tolerate the 5 to 10,000 feet of climb per day.

[oxmixmudd]

pix - I told you exactly what moral responsibility you are eschewing. You are justifying Trump releasing meat plant owners from their MORAL responsibility to provide a safe workplace and reasonable precautions against COVID-19, and you are justifying Trump and GOP state governors IMMORALLY creating virtual SLAVES by taking away unemployment benefits to meat plant workers that do not want to return to those same UNSAFE work environments.


There is not one report of Joe Biden molesting any child ever. You should be ashamed of yourself. That is not an accusation one makes because he kissed a little girl on the back of the head. What planet are you living on? And I'll tell you this, if there was ANY credible evidence he had done that, you would not find me making excuses for him. I'd be demanding he withdraw from the race.


As Carpe rightfully pointed out, people NOT following the rules is no excuse to remove enforcement of the rules or the rules themselves.

And as for YOUR situation, where I work, people that don't follow CDC guidelines or heed an SDS are warned and then if they continue their irresponsible behavior they are fired. We have a culture that encourages (demands really) responsible behavior from the top down. And we don't have many if any violations as a result. Why? Because the place I work is responsible and will not knowingly allow a person to subject themselves (or others) to that sort of danger. When this thing started in February, before ANY government warnings were issued, new hand washing stations were set up, and EVERY office was supplied with hand sanitizer. During this time, we must keep a log of contacts for each day. And space or organization not providing for and implementing masks and 6 feet social distancing of people in contact with each other will be brought to task.

Safety and valuation of a company's human resources is a mindset and a corporate culture that those at the top have a responsibility to encourage and enforce. And it helps if those people are scientists or have a scientific background and know better than to believe the nonsense peddled on fox or other outlets concerning the relative danger of this virus.

[lilpixieofterror]

pix - I told you exactly what moral repsonsibility you are eschewing. You are justifying Trump releasing meat plant owners from their MORAL responsibilty to provide a safe workplace and reasonable precaustions against COVID-19, and you are justifying Trump and GOP state governors IMMORALLY creating virtual SLAVES by refusing to offer unemployment benefits to meat plant workers that do not want to return to those same UNSAFE work environments.

There is not one report of Joe Biden molesting any child ever. You should be ashamed of yourself. That is not an accusation one makes because he kissed a little girl on the back of the head. What planet are you living on? And I'll tell you this, if there was ANY credible evidence he had done that, you would not find me making excuses for him. I'd be demanding he withdraw from the race.

As Carpe rightfully pointed out, people NOT following the rules is no excuse to remove enforcement of the rules.

And as for YOUR situation, where I work, people that don't follow CDC guidelines or heed an SDS are warned and then if they continue their irresponsible behavior they are fired. We have a culture that encourages responsible behavior from the top down. And we don't have many if any violations as a result. Why? Because the place I work is responsible and will not knowingly allow a person to subject themselves (or others) to that sort of danger.

[oxmixmudd]

Pix, I know fantasizing I'm acting out of 'hatred' rather than facts or moral principles makes it easier for you to dismiss what I say, but you are acting on a strawman. A fantasy created in your own mind. I am motivated by real standards and real action taken (or not taken as the case may be) by Donald Trump. The CDC guidelines were made OPTIONAL. No one will enforce that the meat packing companies follow them. So there is little incentive, and no recourse for employees, if the guidelines are not followed. Further, they can't be closed if things get out of hand. And Further, the governor of at least one state (Republican) has set it up so that workers who are afraid to report back to work will lose their unemployment benefits. They return to their unsafe work environment or they are cut off from any and all state assistance. These are serious moral lapses. There is no reason other than profit to take the direction taken. They are supposedly suplying the PPE. So there is no reason at all not to require these corporate entities not to comply with the CDC guidelines. And it is unconscionable to FORCE workers to return to work if the safety protocols will not be enforced!

But there aren't pictures of Joe Biden 'groping' little girls. That is just idiot stuff. If Joe Biden were actually groping whatever girls are in the pictures you are referring to, there would have been complaints made long ago. And just saying it over and over again will not suddenly make it true.


If you defend Trump forcing workers back into unsafe work environments, and if you defend the state forcing workers to return to work in unsafe environments, and if you defend Trump giving corporate owners a pass on implementing CDC guidelines - you are saying 'it is ok for Trump to do what he is doing'.

And you can extract punitive measures for lack of compliance with the guildelines without shutting the plants down. In fact, there is a very good incentive for corporate owners with $$$ for pupils and grass seed for a conscience: Big hefty fines. Remember, they have to stay open, and I think Trump can fix prices if he wants via the same act requiring them to stay open to keep them from gouging in response. So if they want to make money, they'd better make sure the guidelines are followed. It is not all that hard Pix.


The military has no means of enforcing discipline in its ranks? That is news to me.

[carpedm9587]

Pix, I know fantasizing I'm acting out of 'hatred' rather than facts or moral principles makes it easier for you to dismiss what I say, but you are acting on a strawman. A fantasy created in your own mind. I am motivated by real standards and real action taken (or not taken as the case may be) by Donald Trump. The CDC guidelines were made OPTIONAL. No one will enforce that the meat packing companies follow them. So there is little incentive, and no recourse for employees, if the guidelines are not followed. Further, they can't be closed if things get out of hand. And Further, the governor of at least one state (Republican) has set it up so that workers who are afraid to report back to work will lose their unemployment benefits. They return to their unsafe work environment or they are cut off from any and all state assistance. These are serious moral lapses. There is no reason other than profit to take the direction taken. They are supposedly suplying the PPE. So there is no reason at all not to require these corporate entities not to comply with the CDC guidelines. And it is unconscionable to FORCE workers to return to work if the safety protocols will not be enforced!

But there aren't pictures of Joe Biden 'groping' little girls. That is just idiot stuff. If Joe Biden were actually groping whatever girls are in the pictures you are referring to, there would have been complaints made long ago. And just saying it over and over again will not suddenly make it true.

If you defend Trump forcing workers back into unsafe work environments, and if you defend the state forcing workers to return to work in unsafe environments, and if you defend Trump giving corporate owners a pass on implementing CDC guidelines - you are saying 'it is ok for Trump to do what he is doing'.

And you can extract punitive measures for lack of compliance with the guildelines without shutting the plants down. In fact, there is a very good incentive for corporate owners with $$$ for pupils and grass seed for a conscience: Big hefty fines. Remember, they have to stay open, and I think Trump can fix prices if he wants via the same act requiring them to stay open to keep them from gouging in response. So if they want to make money, they'd better make sure the guidelines are followed. It is not all that hard Pix.

The military has no means of enforcing discipline in its ranks? That is news to me.

The emphasized part is why I pretty much don't engage with Pix anymore. Most of her arguments are of that sort, and I found I was spending too much time trying to steer her back to what I am actually saying, all of which is pretty much time wasted because she refuses to engage in anything other than these "fantasies" she puts together (both about the points I make and myself as a person) and continually ignores the arguments actually being made. The assumption that you are driven by hatred is an excellent case in point. So now I answer direct questions (if I haven't already and they aren't clearly trolling) and just leave the rest of the things she posts (to me) without response, even the personal insults.

You might want to consider a similar approach. It saves a lot of time!

[Mountain Man]

https://townhall.com/columnists/dere...-game-n2568162

He makes a good point. So the question is, how many active cases are in the US right now?