Coronavirus Outbreak...

[JimL]

And once you accept that premise, you must necessarily accept that what we do while we're alive really doesn't matter. It makes no difference if we live like Mother Theresa or Hillary Clinton, the universe will end exactly the same.

And attitudes like that is one reason why we created gods. To be a good human being, some people need both a fear factor and a reward.

[Mountain Man]

And attitudes like that is one reason why we created gods. To be a good human being, some people need both a fear factor and a reward.

Even if I accept that as true for the sake of argument, it doesn't challenge anything I've said.

[Tassman]

I think that any atheist who is brutally honest with himself would have to agree with King Solomon that any pleasures one finds in life are ultimately vain, like chasing after the wind.

Well I guess that if one had 700 wives and 300 concubines, as King Solomon supposedly had, life would be like chasing after the wind. Surely the poor king got some pleasure out of it.

If atheism is true, then it makes no difference, in the end, how a man chooses to live his life, because everybody will suffer the exact same fate.

Atheism is the default position and all living creatures die, including us - regardless of the fictions we create about life after death. The quality of one's life depends upon what one makes of it. It won't be much if "life" is merely seen as a dress-rehearsal for a postmortem final production.

[JimL]

Even if I accept that as true for the sake of argument, it doesn't challenge anything I've said.

Right, ultimately how you lived your life doesn't matter, since ultimately you'll be dead. How you live can only matter to you, or not matter, while you're alive.

[simplicio]

And once you accept that premise, you must necessarily accept that what we do while we're alive really doesn't matter. It makes no difference if we live like Mother Theresa or Hillary Clinton, the universe will end exactly the same.

Since when does one's works, what one does, really matter!

And attitudes like that is one reason why we created gods. To be a good human being, some people need both a fear factor and a reward.

[firstfloor]

If Covid-19 had a Twitter account, Trump would know what to do.

[Mountain Man]

Atheism is the default position...

Begging the question.

[Mountain Man]

Right, ultimately how you lived your life doesn't matter, since ultimately you'll be dead. How you live can only matter to you, or not matter, while you're alive.

So you agree, despite your earlier objections, that existential nihilism is the only logical conclusion available to atheists.

[JonathanL]

Atheism is the default position . . .

Begging the question.

Not only is it begging the question, I'm suspecting he's going with the "lacking a belief in God" definition of atheism, which means inanimate objects like rocks, or animals with lower cognitive capabilities that cannot comprehend the concept of God, would qualify as atheists.

But worst of all, studies in cognitive science seem to indicate that we're hardwired to believe in "supernatural" stuff such as God/gods and the continuation of consciousness after death. Jesse Bering, director of the Institute of Cognition and Culture at the Queen's University, Belfast, who is an atheist, concludes in an article in the Guardian:

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2011/jan/04/the-god-instinct-jesse-bering

But as the data mounts, it is becoming clear that even atheists experience the vague sense that they are here for a preconceived purpose, that their minds are endless, that there are inherent moral truths, and that the nonhuman world employs human justiceGod is the default stance

© Copyright Original Source

For further information and sources I recommend the following video by InspiringPhilosophy, where he argues, and demonstrates that belief in God, or gods, seem to be natural, intuitive, and the default position of the vast majority of the world's population, and that the belief that the world was created, as is, and with a purpose forms naturally from a very early age in a child's mind:

He also cites Justin L. Barrett (Ph.D in experimental psychology), in the video, who notes:

Source: Justin L. Barrett, "Born Believers: The Science of Childhood Religion", p.3

Children are prone to believe in supernatural beings such as spirits, ghosts, angels, devils, and gods during the first four years of life due to ordinary cognitive development in ordinary human environments.

© Copyright Original Source

The part in italics wasn't included in the video, but I thought it was interesting, so I added it. Emphasis mine.

So in short, not only is he begging the question, most of the data from the cognitive sciences directly contradict the "atheism is the default position"-hypothesis and shows instead that belief in deities/a Deity forms naturally and as a result of normal cognitive development in the human mind, so not only is theism a far better candidate for the "default position", it doesn't fulfill the criterion to be classified as a delusional belief either.

Lastly, InspiringPhilosophy also uploaded a response to objections to the video embedded above, so for convenience I'll embed the response video below:

[Mountain Man]

"But as the data mounts, it is becoming clear that even atheists experience the vague sense that they are here for a preconceived purpose, that their minds are endless, that there are inherent moral truths, and that the nonhuman world employs human justice."

C.S. Lewis made a similar argument decades ago, something to the effect of "If a god doesn't exist, then why do humans have such a strong sense of what we ought not to do?"

[JonathanL]

"But as the data mounts, it is becoming clear that even atheists experience the vague sense that they are here for a preconceived purpose, that their minds are endless, that there are inherent moral truths, and that the nonhuman world employs human justice."

C.S. Lewis made a similar argument decades ago, something to the effect of "If a god doesn't exist, then why do humans have such a strong sense of what we ought not to do?"

In case you haven't seen the videos I linked to above, I would highly recommend watching them. Not only is the first video highly informative and well-researched, the second "response-to-the-responses" video IP posted is hilariously ironic, because he shows that rather than actually addressing the points in the first video, the youtube atheists and skeptics who responded to the video were far more prone to making up stuff and inventing and attributing false statements and arguments to IP, showing that they'd rather believe in a delusion than having to face reality.

[Sparko]

The bigger problem are the large number of people, around 50%, that live pay-check to pay-check, and lack an emergency fund and must work because they don't have sick days as part of their contract - who will continue to work even if they are ill. Many also lack access to healthcare because they can't afford the excess - so will die or create emergency room overload.

The problem for us is that if it gets out of control in the US, which it probably will because of your awful system, you're going to export the problem, like you export your terrible filth of a culture.

Where do you live?

I am betting that the countries with socialized medicine will have a much larger overload problem than the US because they are already overloaded from their normal operational status. That's why they have to wait in line for several months to get a routine lab test done.

But my point was that the homeless problem in LA and other large California cities will quickly spread the disease is because they live on the street in close proximity to each other, without any means of washing or quarantine. And they are in direct contact with the rest of the public who have to walk down the same streets. They are already having disease outbreaks of diseases thought extinct, like the plague.

I agree that much of our culture is filth. Hollywood, also in California, puts out some of the vilest trash there is.

[Sparko]

It's already spreading like wildfire, it's a pandemic. But, what do you suggest we do with the homeless?

Move them in with you of course.

[Sparko]

If Covid-19 had a Twitter account, Trump would know what to do.

Now that was a good one!

[demi-conservative]

Spreading like wildfire? Not even in your dreams JimL. From the CDC website:

At this point this is the most willfully ignorant post Demi has seen.



US numbers are low because they have not tested to any useful degree.