Originally posted by carpedmprig
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Originally posted by little_monkey View PostAgree with your point in regard to Trump's action and his motivation. However, it's a national crisis - the virus doesn't respect boundaries. So it's counter-productive if one governor's action nullifies the action of the neighboring state. This is not about constitutional rights or state's rights. The President has enough power to institute a national response to this national crisis, whether the foe is exterior or interior. It's a question of leadership, which Trump sorely doesn't have.
And I'm sure this will get the inevitable "complains he's like a dictator and then wants him to act like one" meme as a response. The fact is, in a crisis, the entire purpose of the executive is to act quickly and decisively. The fact that we have a wanna-be dictator at the helm just muddies the waters. If he wasn't one - there would not be the issue of "is he trying to be a dictator?" Of course, in this age of hyper polarization, I guess it doesn't really matter who is at the helm - the other side will hate him and tear him down.
Too bad THIS man (Trump) is truly a vile man by pretty much all measures.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostSo you think he should starve out those that don't comply?
Originally posted by Sparko View PostNo that's not acting like a dictator at all.
I agree that it is somewhat nerve-wracking to have a man who continually expresses admiration for dictators and strongmen taking that role - but in this case it is a necessary evil. He either acts - or people die.
And they are beginning to die at the rate of over 1,300 a day. By the end of this week, if the growth continues on the current trajectory, we will likely have the equivalent of a 911 every single day.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostRight... it's our fault. This is a classic "I'm sorry, but..." non-apology.
How you can be so dishonest, yet claim the banner "Christian" is beyond me. But hey, if it's good enough for Trump...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNot part of my argument - so yet another strawman.
In a time of crisis, the executive is empowered to take extraordinary measures to deal with the crisis. It's is one of the reasons why we HAVE an executive. It is why the entire concept of "martial law" exists (though I do not think we are anywhere near ready for that. It is why the Emergency Declaration Act exists.
I agree that it is somewhat nerve-wracking to have a man who continually expresses admiration for dictators and strongmen taking that role - but in this case it is a necessary evil. He either acts - or people die.
And they are beginning to die at the rate of over 1,300 a day. By the end of this week, if the growth continues on the current trajectory, we will likely have the equivalent of a 911 every single day.
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Originally posted by carpedmprig View PostMy observation was, at a minimum, if a state is not taking precautions to staunch the spread of the virus, Trump could basically quarantine that entire state - no travel to/from until they show zero infections or put in place constraints. But he won't. Losing the votes would be too much for him.
So, yes, you are blatantly contradicting yourself when you cry about Trump acting like a dictator and then cry when he doesn't act like one.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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No surprise here. Despite rapidly climbing numbers, the general belief is that the death count is actually too low because it only includes people who die who have tested positive for coronavirus. The lack of testing and unwillingness to use tests on those who have already died (because that would keep them from those still alive) means there a deaths, likely many of them, that are not included in the count.
I hope we get universal alignment on mitigation soon, but that does not seem likely, given the lack of effective leadership from Washington. I can't even bring myself to watch the briefings anymore. I have no desire to listen to another slew of misinformation and attend a Trump campaign rally. I've watched a few...and they make my stomach turn.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostTrump is in control of the federal response, and he's done a good job as far that is concerned. What individual states do is up to their own governments. If they failed to prepare under the mistaken belief the federal government would necessarily have the resources to bail them out then that's their fault, not the President's. Seems a lot of people in this country are suddenly getting a crash course in civics about stuff they should have learned in high school.
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Originally posted by seanD View PostPro-authoritarian push with a dash of fearmongering to boot if I've ever seen one, even though you absolutely despise the one whom you would allot that power to. That makes absolutely no sense.
As for the "fear mongering," feel free to cite one thing in that post that was untrue.Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-05-2020, 01:48 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Pretty much my thought (assuming you were being sarcastic) - and a continuation of the "buck stops there" type of leadership we now have in Washington.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedmprig View PostNo apology intended. And no blaming others either. You see, you once again deliberately took a sentence out of context. The rest of the paragraph continued: "Then I hate myself for it, recognizing it for the failing in me that it is."
How you can be so dishonest, yet claim the banner "Christian" is beyond me. But hey, if it's good enough for Trump...
"I'm sorry I hit my brother, and I feel terrible about it, but he shouldn't have made me want to hit him by looking at me funny!"
Any time an apology contains a description of someone else's actions, then it's really not an apology.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYou have to live with the cat that came home until it is possible to get rid of it.
As for the "fear mongering," feel free to cite one thing in that post that was untrue.
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It's how our country operates. The federal government has limited power, and the individual states have autonomy. It's basically the model the Europeam Union is based on but without success, partly because they didn't build in those necessary limits.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostPix, OBP, is the queen of tangents. Despite your characterizations, I make every effort in my discussions with her to avoid the sidebars and tangents and stay focused on the original discussion. But I almost inevitably find myself spun off in a dozen directions until I no longer even remember what started the discussion. I've gotten better at jumping out of the discussion earlier, but now I'm pretty much of the mind that further discussion with her, MM, Demi, and Darth is pointless. All of them are so deeply buried in their conspiracy theories and trolling that it makes discussion useless. Rogue, Sparko, and Sean are pretty close to the same bar. Seer I hate to give up on. I met him face to face and actually liked him. But his inability to manage simple rational connections and his tendency to drift into personal attacks when he cannot logically respond is getting tedious. But all of them practice (here) a form of toxic Christianity I find somewhat revolting.
Frankly, this forum tends to bring out my darker side. Much as I promise myself to keep that under wraps...I cave and start responding in kind. Then I hate myself for it, recognizing it for the failing in me that it is. I left twice because of that exact dynamic. I returned at the first sign of the pandemic to see how it was being responded to by those on the right. I have my answer. I'll probably shove off again soon."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI absolutely agree. My observation was, at a minimum, if a state is not taking precautions to staunch the spread of the virus, Trump could basically quarantine that entire state - no travel to/from until they show zero infections or put in place constraints. But he won't. Losing the votes would be too much for him.
And I'm sure this will get the inevitable "complains he's like a dictator and then wants him to act like one" meme as a response. The fact is, in a crisis, the entire purpose of the executive is to act quickly and decisively. The fact that we have a wanna-be dictator at the helm just muddies the waters. If he wasn't one - there would not be the issue of "is he trying to be a dictator?" Of course, in this age of hyper polarization, I guess it doesn't really matter who is at the helm - the other side will hate him and tear him down.
Too bad THIS man (Trump) is truly a vile man by pretty much all measures.
Why does nowhere, USA, with no China Flu cases in 100 miles, need to do the same thing as NYC, which contains 1/3rd of all US cases?"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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