Originally posted by Juvenal
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Divided Methodists
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Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-03-2020, 08:30 PM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostActually other denominations are splitting up over homosexuality and other issues like the science of evolution centering on the literal fundamentalist view of the Bible versu the adaptive interpretive view of liberal churches. In North Carolina rural churches regardless of the 'sign out front' have more in common as mostly conservative fundamentalist, and urban churches with liberal views, The exception are common independent mega churches which appeal to more to a fundamentalist belief in the Bible.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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What's the biggest Methodist group in the US after the United Methodist Church? While I assume any of the churches that are breaking away will get together and form a new group, I figure at least some will find some already-existing Methodist group and join that, and I'm wondering what possibilities there are. I tried to find out what other Methodist groups there are in the US, but other than the African Methodist Episcopal Church (which seems to itself be becoming increasingly ambivalent on the issue of same-sex marriage from what I can tell), they all seem extremely small.
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Originally posted by Terraceth View PostWhat's the biggest Methodist group in the US after the United Methodist Church? While I assume any of the churches that are breaking away will get together and form a new group, I figure at least some will find some already-existing Methodist group and join that, and I'm wondering what possibilities there are. I tried to find out what other Methodist groups there are in the US, but other than the African Methodist Episcopal Church (which seems to itself be becoming increasingly ambivalent on the issue of same-sex marriage from what I can tell), they all seem extremely small.
The RLS surveys more than 35,000 Americans from all 50 states about their religious affiliations, beliefs and practices, and social and political views.
The Pew Forum is my go-to source. The rest of the Methodists show up as a rounding error:
Other Methodist (Mainline Trad.) 0.3%
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I cannot fault them for wishing to keep the Church together and avoid a split. But after a while a split becomes so deep and so prolonged that there is no other real option. Then a split is more honest, than pretending all is one.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostWhich denomination is splitting up over evolution?
The Lutheran Churches are divided over the literal interpretation of the Bible and evolution.
LCMS Lutheran Churches:
Evangelical Lutheran Church of America is very liberal and has no problem with evolution.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIncomplete representation of my post. The break up is over the more fundamentalist beliefs and more liberal non-literal beliefs. Homosexuality, abortion, birth control, and the belief in a literal interpretation of the Bible opposed to evolution are some of the issues involved in the growing schisms.
The Lutheran Churches are divided over the literal interpretation of the Bible and evolution.
LCMS Lutheran Churches:
Evangelical Lutheran Church of America is very liberal and has no problem with evolution.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIOW, no denominations are splitting up over evolution as you had claimed.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIOW, no denominations are splitting up over evolution as you had claimed.
... splitting up over homosexuality and other issues like the science of evolution centering on the literal fundamentalist view of the Bible versu the adaptive interpretive view of liberal churches
followed by
Incomplete representation of my post.
and a reiteration of the list you didn't read the first time.
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYeah, Shuny is in his own little world. But, hey, the people there all know him.
Then come on back and tell us how that worked out for ya, how it wasn't a divisive topic after all.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostIOW, no denominations are splitting up over evolution as you had claimed.
Actually the United Methodist Church has been divided by deacto for a long time over the conservative literal interpretation of scriptures. The barrier is the ownership of the churches involved. In the United Methodist Church the individual churches do not own their property. As in my region of the North Carolina. The urban United Methodist Churches are mostly liberal, and the rural Methodist Churches are conservative and believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, and ny defacto they are separate. This is actually true of many denominations in my experience.Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-05-2020, 07:13 PM.
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostYou are still misrepresenting my posts as usual. The separation is over the issue of the literal interpretation of the scriptures, which includes the interpretation of genesis, and the literal interpretation concerning the LGBT community. It is a fact as cited that the Lutherans are divided over the literal interpretation of scriptures and the Missouri Senate Lutherans have drawn the line in the sand and rejected evolution based on this and the other Lutheran Churches have not.
It's sort of like comparing the Anglican and Catholic positions on same-sex marriage and saying it's an example of denominations splitting up over it. They might differ in that in the present, but their actual splitting occurred for totally different reasons.
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Originally posted by Juvenal View PostAnd we know you, goober.
2) Do you honestly believe anybody here takes you seriously.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Terraceth View PostIf your argument is that the split is due to how "literally" they take the Bible, with evolution being an example of such, that is not unreasonable--but rather than simply say that in response to rogue's post ("I wasn't saying they were breaking up because of evolution, but because of the differing theological underpinnings that lead to separate opinions on things like evolution"), you confusingly chose to double down on the statement by citing differences in evolution understanding between the LCMS and ELCA. The problem is that the ELCA didn't split from the LCMS--the ELCA was a merger of three different Lutheran groups. Now, to be fair, one of those groups did split from the LCMS, but that still seems like a stretch because that merged into the ELCA rather than being the ELCA. Even if one insists it does "count," I do not know if evolution was an actual factor--but perhaps more importantly this happened back in 1976 rather than in the present as your post suggested.
It's sort of like comparing the Anglican and Catholic positions on same-sex marriage and saying it's an example of denominations splitting up over it. They might differ in that in the present, but their actual splitting occurred for totally different reasons.
It is important to note that the original Lutheran Church Doctrines and Dogmas accepted only a scripture literally inspired by the Holy Ghost. Over the years the LCMS reaffirmed the original beliefs of the Lutheran Church repeatedly, others did not. The LCMS would not accept other Churches that did not hold to the original beliefs of the Lutheran Church, therefore the schism is reinforced based on this difference in belief..Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-05-2020, 09:35 PM.
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Its not so simple, on the one hand no denominations have split over the specific issue of evolution, on the other hand, many take literal interpretation and a Young earth to be a test of orthodoxy and a line between Christian and non Christian.
A while back there was an exchange between two Christian elites, Ken Ham and Norm Geisler. Geisler contended that a literal six day creation and a Young earth was not a test of orthodoxy, Ham contends that the truths of the Bible unravel if one takes Geisler's, old earth view. No six day creation, no resurrection (oversimplified, but it boils down to that).
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