Originally posted by Sam
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThere was nothing convoluted about what I said CP,
though your summary still misses the mark.
Rogues reply to Sam indicated Sam was describing a creampuf Christ. What Sam described however was nothing of the sort, and for the reason's I gave.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sam View PostIf your response to a Christian discussing Scripture is "Why would I listen to them about anything Scriptural when they're married to another dude, I really don't think that leaves much room to maneuver.
--SamSome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThe quote is there for all to see, Sam -- That's why, unlike some of your supporters, I actually use the quote function.
You could have just stayed out of the gutter in the first place.
Perhaps you should have stuck with that.
Perhaps in your twisted little world, Sam, but in mine, somebody can legitimately be a "Christian" and be either ignorant, or screwed up in the head, or simply be wrong.....
I don't play this game like your colleague, Charles, stating somebody is "not a Christian" or "not a True Believer".
Still waiting for that apology, without all the runaround.
When you called me out on something, I immediately corrected, and didn't try to justify or rationalize.
If you use the quote function responsibly, without cutting sentences or thoughts apart, you will see that I did not accuse you of anything you have not said and acknowledged on this thread. I joined two similar clauses together, as one does when constructing a grammatically-appropriate sentence. If you don't like being lumped together with the other set then I'm sorry, but it was a considered sentence and reflects how closely the sentiments are to each other.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostIf you use the quote function responsibly, without cutting sentences or thoughts apart,
you will see that I did not accuse you of anything you have not said and acknowledged on this thread.
I joined two similar clauses together, as one does when constructing a grammatically-appropriate sentence. If you don't like being lumped together with the other set then I'm sorry, but it was a considered sentence and reflects how closely the sentiments are to each other.
--Sam
Originally posted by Sam View PostI think it's notable that Cow Poke and others can advocate for some standard of Christianity where someone like Buttigieg (or myself) can't be called Christian...
I have done no such thing.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSam - STOP SAYING STUPID STUFF.
False.
You made an assumption that was simply not true, and you are not man enough to admit it.
I have done no such thing.
First time is understandable, since you likely read that far and reacted. Using it the second time means you're not bothering to listen to the explanation.
No way to progress, if that's the case.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostYou used the quote you used earlier with the sentence cut off -- this time after I told you that the clause you're quoting wasn't referring to you.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI'm not sure that he has. As far as I know you're identifying 'human body' with the fetal stage. But that's not how the term is used within Science, so you're claiming a philosophical position: That there is some sort of essential difference between the blastocyst stage, and the fetal stage, without justification.
Innocense is simply the state of not having committed any moral evil. Since a fetus is a human, it has the potential for moral actions, but has not committed any yet, ergo it is innocent.
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So would you ascribe innocence to a jellyfish, or a rock? I don't think innocence can exist as anything but an anthropomorphism in an entity not capable of making a moral distinction.
I would not disagree with you though if you claimed that any stage of human life contains the potential of moral action, and that, I believe, is what makes it wrong to do abortion on demand. But I don't believe that prior to the development of the brain you can ascribe the capacity or even the potential (beyond a future development) for moral action. For example, a fetus that does not develop a brain due to a genetic defect. That fetus (unknown of course prior to the event) never had the potential to be a human person. And a blastocyst itself has no capability for moral action at that specific stage of development. That will come later as long as nothing stops its normal development.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Leonhard View Post...
Innocense is simply the state of not having committed any moral evil. Since a fetus is a human, it has the potential for moral actions, but has not committed any yet, ergo it is innocent.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostI agree, but I think this may run counter to some understandings of "Original Sin."The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostSince 2015 is the last year that we apparently have the numbers for, and there were, according to the CDC, 638,169 abortions from 49 of the 52 reporting areas, just how many of those do you think were okay?
And people in comas don't have what can be called "a fully functioning brain" and depending on what you mean by that, neither do millions of people suffering from various neurological disorders. Is it okay to euthanize them as well?
What I am challenging are dogmas rogue, not realities. Dogmas like the world must be 6000 years old or the Bible is not God's word. Dogmas like the Earth must stand still or the Bible is not God's word. Dogmas like the Christ comes as a King and not as a suffering servant. These ideas around abortion are dogmas built up by human beings that reflect neither reality nor the scripture.
And yes, I'm challenging them. But that doesn't mean I reject the idea that a developing human life is a precious and wonderful thing that deserves the protection and respect of society. That killing, aborting a child is not something that we do because we made a mistake, or don't want our career path messed up.
But neither am I saying that the 4 week old fetus is the equivalent of a newly born baby, or that a 4 week old fetus is the equivalent of 6 months gestation. I know your dogma won't allow you to accept it, but Exodus makes it very clear, especially when you look at how it was translated into the Septuagint, that 4week old fetus == 4 week old baby equivalence is not a Biblically based equivalence.
And as Sam has pointed out, the Biblical standard for life is breath, to the point the Jewish tradition does not recognize the fetus as a human person until it takes its first breath. But the respect for life is so high in that same Jewish tradition that once the babe has seen the light, not even the imminent death of the mother can justify killing it to save her.
These are all elements that must be factored into a Christian view of abortion. And I don't believe that when they are it opens much of a door. It certainly slams shut the idea that a woman can view the baby is a part of her body she can do with what she likes. And it certainly closes the door on late term abortions except as self-defense. The only door it opens is to the idea that there are extreme circumstances that are perhaps less than the imminent threat to the life of the mother that can justify early term abortion, like perhaps rape and incest.
It may leave open the door to the idea that aborting a fetus very early is not the same as killing a child or late term abortion. And perverse minds will view that as permission. But the truth is the truth. And I would be willing to bet if we focused on the truth here and recognized that simple fact, it would open the door to defining the human person as beginning long before birth, at the point of independent brain activity. And that would stop the most heinous abortions - those of children in the womb that are viable outside it. And those that have developed to the point they are aware on some human level of what is happening to them.
So I don't know why you feel the need to demonize my words. I'm not giving license to abortion on demand. But I am challenging irrational, unBiblical dogmas surrounding the issue.Last edited by oxmixmudd; 01-20-2020, 12:15 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostGotta love the "no need to get into it, BUT...."
After which, you get into numbers
It's OK, Sam, you've answered my question, and I'm not the least bit surprised.
And I reject your wacky notion that the PURPOSE of any immigration policy is the suffering of children. It may be "argued", but it's dumber than turtle poop, and just another liberal talking point!"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Try again.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNot very many of them rogue. You are not thinking clearly. I'm not saying abortion on demand is OK. I'm saying the reason it is not ok can't be found in the idea that a fetus at 6 weeks is at that point a human person, or that a blastocyst is a human body....
2) if the blastocyst is not a "human" body, what kind of body is it?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostTry again."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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