Christianity Today Op Ed

[lilpixieofterror]

We (at least I am) are talking about White nationalists and neo-Nazis being accepted and finding in the person something they admire - to the point they can adopt the Nazi salute. Changing that into 'liberals are attacking them as being 'racist, sexist, homophobic, etc') will not fly as 'equivalent'.

[oxmixmudd]

No, you stop pretending Trump's situation in this is any kind of 'normal'

[lilpixieofterror]

No, you stop pretending Trump's situation in this is any kind of 'normal'

[oxmixmudd]

You are good at making up stories, I'll give you that...

[lilpixieofterror]

You are good at making up stories, I'll give you that...

[Sam]

When Trump was making his "very fine people", he was referring to the protests on Friday night to protect the statue of Robert E. Lee. There were many people present but those people were part of a march with the crowd chanting "Jews will not replace us!"

Saturday's protests were explicitly formed by white supremacist groups and attended by various flavors of white supremacist groups, militias, and neo-Nazis.

Anyone found protesting alongside those groups but not herself a white supremacist or neo-Nazi would have been part of an extreme minority and, given the circumstances, deserves to be counted among the horde.

And those people are who Trump tried to split off as "very fine people". A distinction without a difference.

--Sam

[lilpixieofterror]

When Trump was making his "very fine people", he was referring to the protests on Friday night to protect the statue of Robert E. Lee. There were many people present but those people were part of a march with the crowd chanting "Jews will not replace us!"

Saturday's protests were explicitly formed by white supremacist groups and attended by various flavors of white supremacist groups, militias, and neo-Nazis.

Anyone found protesting alongside those groups but not herself a white supremacist or neo-Nazi would have been part of an extreme minority and, given the circumstances, deserves to be counted among the horde.

And those people are who Trump tried to split off as "very fine people". A distinction without a difference.

--Sam

[I]https://thefederalist.com/2017/08/17...ia-lost-minds/

[DivineOb]

I'd recommend you watch this video which is linked in that article and tell me whether you'd put your stamp of "very fine people" on it. Also there is a clear edit immediately before newsbox incident so it's impossible to really know what is the sequence of events leading up to it. There really isn't any way to say that the protestor was or was not provoked outside of the man drawing a gun and threatening to shoot them!

And I'm no friend of antifa. I don't support political violence and, as a practical consideration, does more harm than "good" in multiple ways.

[lilpixieofterror]

I'd recommend you watch this video which is linked in that article and tell me whether you'd put your stamp of "very fine people" on it. Also there is a clear edit immediately before newsbox incident so it's impossible to really know what is the sequence of events leading up to it. There really isn't any way to say that the protestor was or was not provoked outside of the man drawing a gun and threatening to shoot them!

And I'm no friend of antifa. I don't support political violence and, as a practical consideration, does more harm than "good" in multiple ways.

[DivineOb]

No, you watch the video from your own article first.

Edit: Ok, I couldn't help myself and read the rest of this article. Do you stand behind this statement it contains "Trump makes a lot of mistakes. Some are minor, some major."?

[Jaecp]

The only Trump Derangement Syndrome is people still playing cover for this guy

[Jaecp]

I'd recommend you watch this video which is linked in that article and tell me whether you'd put your stamp of "very fine people" on it. Also there is a clear edit immediately before newsbox incident so it's impossible to really know what is the sequence of events leading up to it. There really isn't any way to say that the protestor was or was not provoked outside of the man drawing a gun and threatening to shoot them!

And I'm no friend of antifa. I don't support political violence and, as a practical consideration, does more harm than "good" in multiple ways.

Antifa is a lot more than just the folks in Bloc, friend.

I'm antifascist, as any good american should be, and I go to the local rallies as my own person to counter protest. I've personally been protected by people in bloc when someone snuck into the liberals group and was going to pepper spray us and I am very happy a teenager in a black hoodie/bandana combo tackled the dude. I never even knew the guy was there, but he kept me safe and I'm grateful for it.

By far the largest bit of work done by antifascists is researching/tracking/exposing people who are active members of hate groups. Bloc is only the most visible part of antifascist work and the most easily demonized

Antifa is good, actually, and while I find the use of violence regrettable in my experience it is fundamentally a defensive use of force. I've seen firsthand what happens when traditionally liberal activists get isolated by the far right and its not pretty. I'd rather we not have political violence, but the initiative is with the far right groups. The Antifa people are, overwhelmingly, locals. Proud Boys from all over the US invaded Portland in August. They come into cities that are thought of as liberal (Charlottesville, Berkeley, Portland, New York) explicitly to waste city resources and so they can get their 4th degree rank in the gang.

Also worth pointing out that most antifascists I've spoken to in Portland don't like either political party, but the far right groups that come to brawl are explicit fans of the President. Only politician I think I've ever heard an antifascist say they like is Bernie. The rest of the Dems can eat it as far as they're concerned.

[DivineOb]

Antifa is a lot more than just the folks in Bloc, friend.

SNIP

Thanks for the info. I read a short article on them and have a better picture.

[Jaecp]

Thanks for the info. I read a short article on them and have a better picture.

Nice! Thank you for keeping an open mind :)

Most cities with an active far right presence has groups of people that do research,

https://rosecityantifa.org/#blog

This one for Portland has been instrumental in keeping track of the receipts, so to speak.

[Sam]

Gotta learn to post things that support, rather than undermine, your point.

The argument wasn't that most white supremacists were violent or that none of the counter-protesters were violent.

The argument was that Trump called white nationalists/supremacists/neo-Nazis "very fine people", inventing a fictitious group of pro-Confederate statue protesters Friday night and/or non-fascist-supporting Unite the Right protesters Saturday.

--Sam

[I]https://thefederalist.com/2017/08/17...ia-lost-minds/