The Joe Biden thread

[DivineOb]

It was something that had happened years and years ago. Assuming Obama even cared to be concerned, which I DON'T, Obama had no way of knowing she had told witnesses and that she'd eventually come out of the woodwork years later. Remember, this happened before MeToo and before the Dems set the precedent of "Believe all women." And this is also even assuming he would've actually been able to find any of the records about her complaint or would have known specifically where to look. I also find it extremely hard to believe there weren't other complaints from women that Obama didn't know about, considering how much of a letch Biden is. I mean, if he's willing to be that handsy and creepy with females in public before all to see, imagine how much of a sexual creep he is in private.

I know, right? Imagine someone talking about how hot his own daughter was in public!

[seanD]

I know, right? Imagine someone talking about how hot his own daughter was in public!

Wow, that's crazy. Now back to Biden.

[DivineOb]

It was something that had happened years and years ago. Assuming Obama even cared to be concerned, which I DON'T,

Choosing his running mate would have been the most important political decision Obama had made in his career at that point. The idea that he didn't *care* to find *every* skeleton in Biden's closet before pulling the trigger is just not believable.

What was it that everyone bashed McCain for in 2008? *Failing* to properly vet his running mate :).

Obama had no way of knowing she had told witnesses and that she'd eventually come out of the woodwork years later. Remember, this happened before MeToo and before the Dems set the precedent of "Believe all women." And this is also even assuming he would've actually been able to find any of the records about her complaint or would have known specifically where to look.

I can tell you exactly where to look. You look over all the records of prior staffers in Joe's different political offices and why people left the office. Follow up in investigating anyone who left under less than amicable conditions. Start from there. People have been doing background checks for a looong time and know the most likely places to find a skeleton. You're telling me that the idea a powerful politician might take advantage of a subordinate was something no one thought to check?

I also find it extremely hard to believe there weren't other complaints from women that Obama didn't know about, considering how much of a letch Biden is. I mean, if he's willing to be that handsy and creepy with females in public before all to see, imagine how much of a sexual creep he is in private.

So, Biden is handsy and everyone knows. But Obama didn't know? Or knew about this potential bombshell which would permanently sink his own political career but didn't care? And Sanders also knew but didn't care and then dropped out and endorsed Biden instead of waiting for Biden to implode and then be Democratic candidate instead?

Where am I misunderstanding your position?

[seanD]

Choosing his running mate would have been the most important political decision Obama had made in his career at that point. The idea that he didn't *care* to find *every* skeleton in Biden's closet before pulling the trigger is just not believable.

What was it that everyone bashed McCain for in 2008? *Failing* to properly vet his running mate :).



I can tell you exactly where to look. You look over all the records of prior staffers in Joe's different political offices and why people left the office. Follow up in investigating anyone who left under less than amicable conditions. Start from there. People have been doing background checks for a looong time and know the most likely places to find a skeleton.



So, Biden is handsy and everyone knows. But Obama didn't know? Or knew about this potential bombshell which would permanently sink his own political career but didn't care? And Sanders also knew but didn't care and then dropped out and endorsed Biden instead of waiting for Biden to implode and then be Democratic candidate instead?

Where am I misunderstanding your position?

I'm saying I believe Obama didn't care. Obama and Sanders are privy to the same photos and videos we all are privy to of Biden inappropriately touching women and little girls, the memes circulating the internet about it, and the complaints from women about Biden's creepiness, and yet they STILL endorsed the guy anyway. Why? because of what I said. They don't care. They care about political ambition because they're sociopaths, that's all.

[DivineOb]

I'm saying I believe Obama didn't care. Obama and Sanders are privy to the same photos and videos we all are privy to of Biden inappropriately touching women and little girls, the memes circulating the internet about it, and the complaints from women about Biden's creepiness, and yet they STILL endorsed the guy anyway. Why? because of what I said. They don't care. They care about political ambition because they're sociopaths, that's all.

Okey doke.

[Terraceth]

Choosing his running mate would have been the most important political decision Obama had made in his career at that point. The idea that he didn't *care* to find *every* skeleton in Biden's closet before pulling the trigger is just not believable.

What was it that everyone bashed McCain for in 2008? *Failing* to properly vet his running mate :).

But it seems to me that what you just said about Obama--choosing the VP being one of the most important political decision he would have made--can be laid on McCain as well. In fact it would be more important for McCain because he obviously had a much higher probability of dying in office than Obama did. If McCain didn't vet properly despite having the exact same incentive as Obama, why should you assume Obama did?

[DivineOb]

But it seems to me that what you just said about Obama--choosing the VP being one of the most important political decision he would have made--can be laid on McCain as well. In fact it would be more important for McCain because he obviously had a much higher probability of dying in office than Obama did. If McCain didn't vet properly despite having the exact same incentive as Obama, why should you assume Obama did?

A good and fair question.

By that point in the race McCain was the clear underdog and also taking a lot of a flak for being "too old" to be president. He needed to *somehow* shake up the race as well as bring some youthful energy onto his team. That is the reason for his hasty choice in selecting Palin. But his failure in vetting Palin wasn't a matter of missing some skeletons in her closet, it was a matter of far too quickly picking her based on her impressive sounded resume (at least in terms of what he needed from a running mate). His mistake was failing to get to know her well enough to see he was picking an airhead who would ultimately embarrass him badly enough that he wouldn't even invite her to attend his memorial!

Contrast this to Obama's decision where he was coming from a position of relative strength and had any number of "mature statespeople" from which to choose and counter his own "youthful energy." There would be no reason to roll the dice on someone as "handsy" as Seanbaby claims Biden to be.

[seanD]

A good and fair question.

By that point in the race McCain was the clear underdog and also taking a lot of a flak for being "too old" to be president. He needed to *somehow* shake up the race as well as bring some youthful energy onto his team. That is the reason for his hasty choice in selecting Palin. But his failure in vetting Palin wasn't a matter of missing some skeletons in her closet, it was a matter of far too quickly picking her based on her impressive sounded resume (at least in terms of what he needed from a running mate). His mistake was failing to get to know her well enough to see he was picking an airhead who would ultimately embarrass him badly enough that he wouldn't even invite her to attend his memorial!

Contrast this to Obama's decision where he was coming from a position of relative strength and had any number of "mature statespeople" from which to choose and counter his own "youthful energy." There would be no reason to roll the dice on someone as "handsy" as Seanbaby claims Biden to be.

Yes, it's my "claim." Biden's not handsy at all. The photos and videos are Russian deep fakes! And the women that complained were clearly Russian assets.

[rogue06]

I don't actually think this will be fatal. Not intending this as a tu quoque, but given Trump's Access Hollywood comments and the fact that there have been a number of allegations after him (by some counts, as many as 25 women have accused Trump of sexual misconduct) , I don't think it will end up being a deal breaker. At the very least, this will give people already disposed to oppose Trump justification for continuing to vote for Biden; anecdotally, I have heard this exact justification offered on a personal level. Does this match up with "believe all women"? No. But I'm more interested in discussing what will actually happen than what would happen if people were perfectly consistent.

Also, note that recent polling suggests that so-called "double haters" are breaking for Biden right now.

FWIU there are at least 8 women who have accused Biden of sexual misconduct so far and none of them appear to be on the level of claims like he-repeatedly-tried-to-rape-me-on-plane-full-of-passengers. And then there are the slew of videos of pictures of Biden inappropriately touching and sniffing anything in a skirt no matter what their age is. Moreover, Biden's chief accuser is a fellow liberal Democrat and not, as ABC has tried to portrayer her, part of a politically motivated orchestrated by Trump)

[rogue06]

Obama came up empty when vetting Biden too? And so did Sanders? You really believe that?

Biden angrily shut down investigations into his son when the Obama Administration started looking into them so I wonder just how thorough they were especially in the pre#MeToo era. As for Sanders, he famously refused to bring up Hillary's numerous onerous scandals in 2016 so his not saying anything means little.

[JimL]

Biden angrily shut down investigations into his son when the Obama Administration started looking into them so I wonder just how thorough they were especially in the pre#MeToo era. As for Sanders, he famously refused to bring up Hillary's numerous onerous scandals in 2016 so his not saying anything means little.

Biden didn't shut anything down.

[Mountain Man]

Obama came up empty when vetting Biden too? And so did Sanders? You really believe that?

Joe's "way" with the ladies has been well-known throughout Washington for decades, but it has always been dismissed with a wink and a nod and "It's just Joe being Joe."

This is an article from 2008:

Biden is a notorious flapjaw. His vanity deludes him into believing that every word that drops from his mouth is minted in the golden currency of Pericles. Vanity is the most conspicuous characteristic of US Senators en bloc, nourished by deferential acolytes and https://www.counterpunch.org/2008/08...out-joe-biden/

A 2013 headline for the Today Show refers to Biden as "famously friendly" (in other words, everybody knows!).

In 2015, the Daily Show did a hilarious segment titled "The Audacity of Grope":

grope.jpg
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/yfmksi...acity-of-grope

A 2019 article by VOX (hardly a bastion of conservative thought) is headlined "Joe Biden has a long history of touching women inappropriately" and says:


Obama knew. He just didn't care.

[KingsGambit]

FWIU there are at least 8 women who have accused Biden of sexual misconduct so far and none of them appear to be on the level of claims like he-repeatedly-tried-to-rape-me-on-plane-full-of-passengers. And then there are the slew of videos of pictures of Biden inappropriately touching and sniffing anything in a skirt no matter what their age is. Moreover, Biden's chief accuser is a fellow liberal Democrat and not, as ABC has tried to portrayer her, part of a politically motivated orchestrated by Trump)

Again, though, my point is not the actual strength of the allegations, but rather how this colors how the electorate will respond to them, and how I have already heard some people use this to rationalize continued support for Biden.

[Cow Poke]

What's amazing is to hear the Democrats defending Biden with point-by-point OPPOSITE reasoning when they were after Kavanaugh.

[DivineOb]

Again, it makes *no sense* to say that Obama didn't care

1) Obama stood to personally *lose* if this broke during his candidacy / presidency. He doesn't have to care about women in the slightest for him to still care that it would affect him personally.
2) Sanders stood to personally *gain* if this broke during the primary. He doesn't have to care about women in the slightest for him to still care that it would affect him personally.

To just say they didn't care is to say they are acting in a way which strongly goes against their own interests. You have to explain why they would do something which put themselves at a severe disadvantage before you can claim them "not caring" explains things.