Little Greta comes clean

[Charles]

Charles this is pure bias pablum. First, most Evangelicals don't even know this history. Second, race was not a significant driver.

Here is a 2016 poll: The main drivers 70% and above, Are the Economy, terrorism/immigration, the courts, gun rights, health care etc...And all of these are race neutral.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41784[/ATTACH]

I would like to see you support the claim that all those are race neutral. How can you be certain that ideas about race does not play a role regarding ideas about immigration, terrorism, foreign policy and some of the others?

[seer]

I would like to see you support the claim that all those are race neutral. How can you be certain that ideas about race does not play a role regarding ideas about immigration, terrorism, foreign policy and some of the others?

How are they race related? I for instance believe in an immigration pause like we did in the last century. That is not race specific. And if I had my way I would prefer immigration be limited to educated people, from places like Africa, India, Europe, South America and Asia. We do not need more uneducated low skilled labor. Again not race specific. What most of us don't want is more illegal immigration - whether they are from Mexico or Sweden.

[Starlight]

the Economy, terrorism/immigration, the courts, gun rights, health care etc...And all of these are race neutral.

None of those are race-neutral.

Blacks are socio-economically much worse off financially than whites in the US. Blacks were disproportionately impacted by the Great Recession because what little wealth they had was in homes they lost, and as a whole they lost 50% of their total wealth in the Great Recession. Whites by contrast, own a disproportionately high amount of the stock in the stock market. So anything the economy does or doesn't do has huge racial impacts.

Terrorism/immigration is all about race: Keeping out "them bad colored people".

The courts have a huge racial impact, with 'tough on crime' and 'three strikes' policies being used to imprison black people at much higher rates and for much longer even in instances when they commit the same crimes at the same rates as white people.

Gun rights is pretty close to 100% about race: "Gotta have a gun to defend your family from those dangerous black people coming to rape and murder your family!"

Health care is about race too: So many right wingers think that America can't afford to have universal healthcare like every other country in the developed world does, because "America has Black people, and it's unfair to make us white people pay for their health issues". So the right wing prefers a system where the white people who can generally afford to buy health care get it, and where the black people who generally can't afford to buy health care, don't.

So all the issues you list range from having massive race-based impacts through to being almost 100% about race. Not a single one is remotely close to race-neutral.

[seer]

None of those are race-neutral.

Blacks are socio-economically much worse off financially than whites in the US. Blacks were disproportionately impacted by the Great Recession because what little wealth they had was in homes they lost, and as a whole they lost 50% of their total wealth in the Great Recession. Whites by contrast, own a disproportionately high amount of the stock in the stock market. So anything the economy does or doesn't do has huge racial impacts.

That is nonsense Star, this does not mean that race was motivating factor. I doubt that most Trump supporters would even know these stats. But thankfully blacks are doing better under Trump than they ever did under Barry.

Terrorism/immigration is all about race: Keeping out "them bad colored people".

Another lie.

The courts have a huge racial impact, with 'tough on crime' and 'three strikes' policies being used to imprison black people at much higher rates and for much longer even in instances when they commit the same crimes at the same rates as white people.

Yet Trump passed the The First Step Act, which largely affects minorities. And I don't remember his based getting upset.

Gun rights is pretty close to 100% about race: "Gotta have a gun to defend your family from those dangerous black people coming to rape and murder your family!"

Why do you lie so much? I don't think anyone cares about the race of the intruder, I certainly doubt that they had that in mind in the voting booth.

Health care is about race too: So many right wingers think that America can't afford to have universal healthcare like every other country in the developed world does, because "America has Black people, and it's unfair to make us white people pay for their health issues". So the right wing prefers a system where the white people who can generally afford to buy health care get it, and where the black people who generally can't afford to buy health care, don't.

So all the issues you list range from having massive race-based impacts through to being almost 100% about race. Not a single one is remotely close to race-neutral.

Listen to yourself - Conservative don't want socialized medicine because they are afraid blacks will get free health care! You really are a piece of crap Star.

[Starlight]

I wonder if Seer's utter ignorance about the racial basis of right-wing political positions in the US is due to him living in New England rather than the South?

Do the few right-wingers in NE genuinely believe the actual merits of their crazy positions rather than them just being a proxy for their racial views like they are among right wingers elsewhere in the US? Or am I giving them too much credit?

[seer]

I wonder if Seer's utter ignorance about the racial basis of right-wing political positions in the US is due to him living in New England rather than the South?

Do the few right-wingers in NE genuinely believe the actual merits of their crazy positions rather than them just being a proxy for their racial views like they are among right wingers elsewhere in the US? Or am I giving them too much credit?

No Star, you are ascribing motives. That because one does not hold to socialized medicine, or supports gun rights or doesn't want rampant illegal immigration he must be largely motivate by racism.

[oxmixmudd]

How are they race related? I for instance believe in an immigration pause like we did in the last century. That is not race specific. And if I had my way I would prefer immigration be limited to educated people, from places like Africa, India, Europe, South America and Asia. We do not need more uneducated low skilled labor. Again not race specific. What most of us don't want is more illegal immigration - whether they are from Mexico or Sweden.

You are not taking into account how the underlying implicit racial biases within our country causes certain policies to take on explicit racial differences in terms of effect, even if they are implemented without any explicit racially motivated goals. Sometimes policies are racist in effect, even if they are not racist in motive. Ignorance of how that can be the case only compounds the problem. And callous disregard for how that can be the case can be, and often is, a continuance of the racist history of our nation.

Those affected by them don't know if the result was intentional or not, but given the racist history of the country, and the continuance of racist attitudes, those non-whites negatively affected have good reason to wonder about or even to doubt that aspect of it.

[seer]

You are not taking into account how the underlying implicit racial biases within our country causes certain policies to take on explicit racial differences in terms of effect, even if they are implemented without any explicit racially motivated goals. Sometimes policies are racist in effect, even if they are not racist in motive. Ignorance of how that can be the case only compounds the problem. And callous disregard for how that can be the case can be, and often is, a continuance of the racist history of our nation.

Those affected by them don't know if the result was intentional or not, but given the racist history of the country, and the continuance of racist attitudes, those non-whites negatively affected have good reason to wonder about or even to doubt that aspect of it.

The point is about broad brushing Trump supporters, and conservatives in general, with the racist meme...

[oxmixmudd]

No Star, you are ascribing motives. That because one does not hold to socialized medicine, or supports gun rights or doesn't want rampant illegal immigration he must be largely motivate by racism.

But all of those policies carelessly implemented can have massively negative and racially focused effect. And when a policy is implemented that adversely affects non-whites and benefits whites - even obviously so - what reason would a non-white have to believe that the policy was not in fact implemented with a racist goal to hurt or keep down those that are not white and already , as a group, operating in a less affluent, less privileged sub culture.

[seer]

But all of those policies carelessly implemented can have massively negative and racially focused effect. And when a policy is implemented that adversely affects non-whites and benefits whites - even obviously so - what reason would a non-white have to believe that the policy was not in fact implemented with a racist goal to hurt or keep down those that are not white and already , as a group, operating in a less affluent, less privileged sub culture.

Just stop Jim, a booming economy helps all men, that is why the unemployment rate for minorities is the lowest in 50 years. The Second Amendment helps both law abiding whites and minorities defend them selves and their families. And restricting immigration helps preserve low skill jobs for American citizens to get on the first run of that ladder.

[seanD]

I wonder if Seer's utter ignorance about the racial basis of right-wing political positions in the US is due to him living in New England rather than the South?

Do the few right-wingers in NE genuinely believe the actual merits of their crazy positions rather than them just being a proxy for their racial views like they are among right wingers elsewhere in the US? Or am I giving them too much credit?

Man, that's rich coming from a know-it-all expert on sociopolitical issues in America living in New Zealand.

[seanD]

Anyway, back to the topic...

Tim Pool makes a really good argument why Greta may be a "one hit wonder" similar to child celebrities that gain fame off of one role, but then struggle later on in life. Greta will always be known for her activism, but unless she becomes a climate scientists, this early rapid fame may have a negative affect or her later on in life depending on what she chooses to do with her career.

[JimL]

Anyway, back to the topic...

Tim Pool makes a really good argument why Greta may be a "one hit wonder" similar to child celebrities that gain fame off of one role, but then struggle later on in life. Greta will always be known for her activism, but unless she becomes a climate scientists, this early rapid fame may have a negative affect or her later on in life depending on what she chooses to do with her career.

Irrelevant.

[seanD]

Irrelevant.

Yes, and her irrelevance in the future is sad.

[Starlight]

Man, that's rich coming from a know-it-all expert on sociopolitical issues in America living in New Zealand.

America is a country with very large regional differences. A lot of Americans on this forum ignorantly assume their own personal experiences of their own life growing up in their particular location in America are representative of the country as a whole. They tend to have extremely biased viewpoints that skew to their own personal experiences, and have massive blindspots when it comes to many issues they are unaware of or that haven't impacted them personally. They tend to foolishly assume that they must know all about America just by virtue of living in it, and pretend that no foreigner no matter how well informed could ever possibly know as much as they do or more or have a more well-balanced and better overall view of their own country than they do. The Dunning-Krugers gets quite extreme at times.