Little Greta comes clean

[DivineOb]

Seems self evident - making assumptions about someone's race because of the person's views as if skin color dictated thought.

Lynching, at least in the United States, is impossible to separate from its history as being applied to African Americans at the hands of whites. Trivializing its history by saying I should be able to threaten it upon others with impunity strikes me as endemic of white privilege. To me this is obviously different than saying "Oh you like basketball so you must be X" or "Oh you're good at math so you must be Y". It's more along the lines of "I can see how I might have made a similar statement when I didn't understand how ignorant it sounds."

And I'm white (and privileged)! Is it even possible for whites to be racist against other whites? I'd say yes but I imagine most on this board would say no.

[demi-conservative]

And I'm white (and privileged)! Is it even possible for whites to be racist against other whites? I'd say yes but I imagine most on this board would say no.

Self-hating white liberals are common.

[DivineOb]

Self-hating white liberals are common.

Meaning me? What does a self-hating white liberal say?

[seanD]

Seems self evident - making assumptions about someone's race because of the person's views as if skin color dictated thought.

It's more than that, he's actually projecting racism. It's why white liberals are so overly sensitive about these things. He equated lynching to black folks in his own mind (what an actual racist would do) that he immediately got offended by the word when in fact I didn't even see it that way at all. I just saw a person making a verbal threat to someone regardless of color and felt this should be protected.

[demi-conservative]

Meaning me?

More observation is required to make a judgment about you.

What does a self-hating white liberal say?

Stuff like 'whites can't help being racist', hate their own culture, etc.

[demi-conservative]

[Teallaura]

Lynching, at least in the United States, is impossible to separate from its history as being applied to African Americans at the hands of whites. Trivializing its history by saying I should be able to threaten it upon others with impunity strikes me as endemic of white privilege. To me this is obviously different than saying "Oh you like basketball so you must be X" or "Oh you're good at math so you must be Y". It's more along the lines of "I can see how I might have made a similar statement when I didn't understand how ignorant it sounds."

And I'm white (and privileged)! Is it even possible for whites to be racist against other whites? I'd say yes but I imagine most on this board would say no.

But all of that rests on your presumptions about people of a particular race - which is itself racist. I see no bar to being racist against one's own race under current definitions. Plenty of white, mostly liberal, folks that hate white folks on general priniciples. In reality, that's probably more indicative of a form of self-hate, but it falls into the current overly vague accusation of racism.

But vassuming a person's race based on viewpoint is classic racism.

[Teallaura]

It's more than that, he's actually projecting racism. It's why white liberals are so overly sensitive about these things. He equated lynching to black folks in his own mind (what an actual racist would do) that he immediately got offended by the word when in fact I didn't even see it that way at all. I just saw a person making a verbal threat to someone regardless of color and felt this should be protected.

Granted, but I do think the presumption is inherent to a prejudiced view, consistent with classic racism.

It's actually the one that bugs me - let people speak for themselves rather than assume you understand their views based on an inanity like skin color.

[DivineOb]

It's more than that, he's actually projecting racism.

Ok, I think there is a misunderstanding here and I'm sorry for that. I wasn't meaning to, in any way, imply that you were racist. I thought your use of that word was insensitive since there *is* a racial association with the word unlike murder / threaten / whatever. I do apologize for not considering that what I said might come across in that way and will try to do better.

It's why white liberals are so overly sensitive about these things.

I'm sensitive about these things because I come from basically the most privileged group in this society (tall, white, male, from a family with enough money to get me out of a few run ins with the law). I view acknowledging my privilege more along the lines with showing gratitude for things I didn't earn.

He equated lynching to black folks in his own mind (what an actual racist would do)

Lynching cannot be separated, in the United States, from killings performed by whites on blacks. There is no debating this point.

that he immediately got offended by the word when in fact I didn't even see it that way at all. I just saw a person making a verbal threat to someone regardless of color and felt this should be protected.

I'm not offended :). I just was a bit shocked to hear someone use that word when there are plenty of alternatives which don't have racial associations.

[DivineOb]

Granted, but I do think the presumption is inherent to a prejudiced view, consistent with classic racism.

It's actually the one that bugs me - let people speak for themselves rather than assume you understand their views based on an inanity like skin color.

I'm going to let you speak for the group. Does the word lynch really not have a racial implication (but not requirement) in the United States? If you say it doesn't then I'll admit I totally blew this one (more than I already admitted to) and we can move on.

[seanD]

Ok, I think there is a misunderstanding here and I'm sorry for that. I wasn't meaning to, in any way, imply that you were racist. I thought your use of that word was insensitive since there *is* a racial association with the word unlike murder / threaten / whatever. I do apologize for not considering that what I said might come across in that way and will try to do better.



I'm sensitive about these things because I come from basically the most privileged group in this society (tall, white, male, from a family with enough money to get me out of a few run ins with the law). I view acknowledging my privilege more along the lines with showing gratitude for things I didn't earn.



Lynching cannot be separated, in the United States, from killings performed by whites on blacks. There is no debating this point.



I'm not offended :). I just was a bit shocked to hear someone use that word when there are plenty of alternatives which don't have racial associations.

You did assume I was a racist when I said calling for someone to be lynched should be protected, that's why you immediately assumed I was a white for saying that. Don't try and deny it, it's as clear as day. I saw the word used as just an example of a verbal assault with absolutely no assumption of race whatsoever. Like I said, you'll see the word "lynching" as a racist term and be offended by it depending on whether you have racism -- for whatever reason -- on your mind or not. It's extremely odd to me that white liberals see racism in words that don't always apply to racism and are quickly offended by it when I'm not, and this looks like a classic case of racism projection.

[DivineOb]

You did assume I was a racist when I said calling for someone to be lynched should be protected, that's why you immediately assumed I was a white for saying that. Don't try and deny it, it's as clear as day. I saw the word used as just an example of a verbal assault with absolutely no assumption of race whatsoever. Like I said, you'll see the word "lynching" as a racist term and be offended by it depending on whether you have racism -- for whatever reason -- on your mind or not. It's extremely odd to me that white liberals see racism in words that don't always apply to racism and are quickly offended by it when I'm not, and this looks like a classic case of racism projection.

Well, I'll repeat my apology and say I hope that over time you'll understand that I know that people are rarely convinced of anything by that sort of attack.

One last time I'll say that I never meant to imply that you were racist, just that I thought you were using that word carelessly.

[seanD]

Well, I'll repeat my apology and say I hope that over time you'll understand that I know that people are rarely convinced of anything by that sort of attack.

One last time I'll say that I never meant to imply that you were racist, just that I thought you were using that word carelessly.

No need to apologize, I'm not at all offended by anything. My point is, if you see the word "lynching" and automatically think black lynching and are offended by it as a white person, you might want to do a bit of introspection

[Tassman]

No need to apologize, I'm not at all offended by anything. My point is, if you see the word "lynching" and automatically think black lynching and are offended by it as a white person, you might want to do a bit of introspection

Considering that the vast majority of "lynchings" were of black people by white people and continued until relatively recently, it is a perfectly reasonable presupposition.

[simplicio]

No need to apologize, I'm not at all offended by anything. My point is, if you see the word "lynching" and automatically think black lynching and are offended by it as a white person, you might want to do a bit of introspection

Why on earth would anyone today be offended by lynching! And why on earth would a white person find lynching offensive?

I do encourage DivineOb to examine himself, use introspection (always a good thing), but I do hope he does not move away from his position. I find it entirely consistent with a Christian ethos. Not bad for an atheist without recourse to divine grace.