Originally posted by Mountain Man
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The Ukraine scandal timeline Democrats... don�t want America to see
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"If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by myth View PostThe better defense is to argue that what Trump did was ok or else not worthy of impeachment and/or removal. When the White House Chief of Staff directly, in a press conference, admits to the facts at issue -- there's no point arguing further.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by myth View PostThe better defense is to argue that what Trump did was ok or else not worthy of impeachment and/or removal. When the White House Chief of Staff directly, in a press conference, admits to the facts at issue -- there's no point arguing further.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostLike I said, I'm still trying to figure out who it was that came up with the notion that innocent men are obligated to submit themselves or compel their subordinates to submit themselves to an interrogation by a hostile panel in order to prove their innocence. That flies in the face of common sense and basic jurisprudence.
I've given this example before, but it bears repeating: If the police come to you and say, "You're not under arrest, and we don't have a warrant, but we'd like you to come down to the station to answer a few questions, you know, just to clear your name," the correct answer is no, no matter how innocent you really are!"If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostPeople can say whatever they want in a press conference. It's not admissible as evidence. What we do know is that Sondland while under oath quoted the President as saying clearly and emphatically, "There is to be no quid pro quo.""If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThe Quid pro quo is in the transcript, but not in a form that in isolation it shows the quid pro quo beyond a shadow of a doubt.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI'm going to ask you not to reply to me if you don't have anything of substance to say.
I know you'll ignore me. I just want to be on record as to your abuse of power as a moderator to badger members of the community to whom your only posted content is belligerence and who would otherwise put you on ignore.
I would also like to request a change in TWEB rules. As moderators (oxymoron in this case) a person should serve to reduce the hostile interactions and maintain site decorum. Implicit in that, I would think, is a responsibility not to use or engage in ad hominem or personal attacks on individual members.
Would you like me to no longer respond to you? That can be arranged.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostYeah, I think it was pretty much explained by one of the talking heads that EVERY foreign policy issue is a "quid pro quo" of sorts, because we don't just give out aid willy-nilly, and we're always attempting to bring about a change in the behavior of both our friends and our enemies.
I'm honestly concerned that American evangelicals are allowing our moral authority in the eyes of our secular countrymen to be eroded by staunchly supporting someone like Trump. I don't always think Christians should care what the lost think of us....but it's hard to engage in witnessing and apologetics to people who think you are morally bankrupt compared to themselves.
It's totally possible for us to vote for him for strategic political reasons and still cry fowl when he does wrong.Last edited by myth; 11-25-2019, 11:26 AM."If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by myth View PostIf withholding the aid for personal political reasons is is illegal -- then the statement is also documented evidence of a criminal conspiracy. Stop just dismissing it because you don't like it. If someone walked out in front of the press conference and said "I just murdered my wife"....you imagine that statement would not be admissible in court? lolSome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostBy that same logic, a killer protesting his innocence in front of the news cameras is also admissible.
On the other hand, people rarely (rarely, not never) admit to crimes they didn't do. So how much weight would a jury give that statement?"If you believe, take the first step, it leads to Jesus Christ. If you don't believe, take the first step all the same, for you are bidden to take it. No one wants to know about your faith or unbelief, your orders are to perform the act of obedience on the spot. Then you will find yourself in the situation where faith becomes possible and where faith exists in the true sense of the word." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer, The Cost of Discipleship
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Originally posted by myth View PostTrue, but it's also morally and ethically wrong for Trump to do this for personal reasons....
IF (for example) I'm calling for an investigation of an abuse of previous funding or appropriation of military materiel to or by a foreign government, and that investigation happens to expose misdeeds of a campaign rival, so be it.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by myth View PostAs the police, I can tell you that if you are truly innocent -- this is an excellent way to get yourself arrested, charged, and probably found not guilty while saddling yourself with a ton of lawyer debt, simply because you were too paranoid to talk to the police. It's stupid to do if you have nothing to hide. As I tell people all the time: I can't make you talk to me. But if you choose not to, the case doesn't magically go away. I have to make a decision about what to do based on only one side of the story. If you choose not to clear things up, then the consequences are also on you.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostNot ignoring the rest of your post - you often make great points, and I'm glad you're around. On this point, though, if it were ONLY for personal reasons, there's be a problem. If the 'quid pro quo' was in the national interest, AND happened to be a personal benefit -- sometimes that happens.
IF (for example) I'm calling for an investigation of an abuse of previous funding or appropriation of military materiel to or by a foreign government, and that investigation happens to expose misdeeds of a campaign rival, so be it.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt doesn't even show it beyond a reasonable doubt. In fact, it's not in the transcript at all without twisting things beyond any semblance of reality. Vindman tried to make the case with the absurd claim that President Zelensky is somehow subordinate to President Trump, and therefore whatever Trump said was a demand rather than a request.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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