Have Fun Storming the Castle!!

[Mountain Man]

They accused Mitt Romney of being a Nazi, willing giving people cancer, and everything they accused Trump as being. The idea the left will suddenly play nice under a new Republican President is pure fantasy.

Yeah, but now Mitt "John McCain II" Romney is the Democrat party's favorite Republican because he vigorously attacks Trump. Ironically, if Mitt fought Obama and the Democrats as hard as he's fighting against Trump, he would be in his second term as president right now.

[Cow Poke]

According to Trump and his lawyers he can't be touched or investigated for any reason whatsoever while president.

I think they're wrong.

Let me see now, what would we name such a one, Oh that's it, a tyrant, a person who is above the law and can do anything at all that he pleases, including undermining democracy and committing treason.

Be sure to check your closet and under your bed before you go to sleep, Jim.

[Teallaura]

It's not settled law because it's an OLC opinion that's never been tested in court.

...

Is reading comprehension a problem for you? Just once read what is actually written.

[Starlight]

Jim, it's based in the Constitution. A president must either leave or be removed from office before being prosecuted.

A president CAN be prosecuted, but not while in office. This is nothing new and is regarded as settled law.

This is pretty much totally wrong.

There is nothing in the constitution that says a President can't be prosecuted. The OLC has a pretty dodgy creative interpretation as to why the President can't be subjected to federal prosecution while in office, which has never been tested in court, and IMO would fail. Even their creative view doesn't prohibit state prosecutions while the President is in office.

[Starlight]

What part are you castigating him for Bill. You can't bring cell phones into a SCIF.

I suspect he doesn't actually have any specific factual objection to anything I said, hence his failure to list anything I got wrong. I suspect it's far more a case of he doesn't like the fact that I said it, and he objects to me knowing basic facts about things like this subject, because he regards himself as the only expert.

[Tassman]

Jim, it's based in the Constitution. A president must either leave or be removed from office before being prosecuted.

. This is incorrect. He can be whilst in office.

A president CAN be prosecuted, but not while in office. This is nothing new and is regarded as settled law.

Certainly, once a president is removed from office, any local authority could prosecute him, but he is not immune from investigation whilst in office. In fact, the legislative branch of government has a duty of oversight and investigation of the executive branch.

[oxmixmudd]

Right, because the Democrats in the last few decades have shown themselves to be reasonable and willing to reach an equatable comprise.

Remember how awful they were to Bush? They would treat Pence even worse.

It would be far easier to make the case the democrats were being irrational, or partisan, or whatever if the person in office was objectively not a threat to the basic undergirding principles that define our nation and its history and its success.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

I think they're wrong.



Be sure to check your closet and under your bed before you go to sleep, Jim.

Given that a great deal was written by the founding fathers about how to keep the sort of things we are talking about from happening, your dismissal of these concerns would be misguided.

[Juvenal]

With Pence we would be back to just normal differences of opinion and policy. I doubt very much Pence is the sort that has mobster connections and would seek out back-channel diplomacy so he can strong arm needy nations into helping him defeat political opponents.

Yes, I know, I know ... but did you know I once crushed a finger at a pallet mill in PA?

Back then my ID said I was 19 so I could get a legit job and lie low for a spell. Since I was still a year from legal, I'd been doing what needed to be done, all of which was put down to the natural effects of a lengthy lack of adult supervision and washed away when I joined the Navy.

Okay, so it was by invitation.


But never mind that. Listen close.


Mid-winter, I was pulling down 4 lengths from 16 foot 4x6's dropping from the resaw, and stacking them on skids for the jigsaw. That was four lengths for each one from the cutter, even before the cutter thought to start sending them down two at a time, because mills are full of guys like me.

Reaching high to grab one down, turned out it was frozen into a pair, making it twice as heavy. And with that unexpected advantage the pair of them pulled me up instead, back into the sled just as the next two came down crushing a finger and trapping me.

And then another pair, and then another, like it was never going to stop, until my buddy chucked a 4x6 back at the cutter's head, which didn't fix him, but did slow him down for a bit.

We had the majority, but he had the position.

The finger was crushed, but really, it wasn't that bad, or not yet anyway, so I shrugged it off. It swelled up taking the finger out of the way of my work, which was convenient, considering. The mill was freezing anyway. It was as good as icing it.

But you just knew that as soon as it got warm, it was going to add details to a complaint.

Eventually, it started healing, but every bump got its jump.

And a pressure pain kept getting worse from a blood blister deep under the nail. Eventually, I figured out it needed popping, sucked it up, torched a sewing needle and started drilling. It was excruciating, but barely more than the blister. Made a real mess when it popped, too, but it had to be done. Still, nobody wants to drill a needle, by hand, through their own fingernail.

No point complaining about the process.

The needle was worth it.


I'm ready for President Pence.

[JimL]

It's not settled law because it's an OLC opinion that's never been tested in court.

What's novel about the Trump attorneys' recent claim, regardless, is that neither the President nor his businesses can even be investigated while in office. The President could not be detained, the lawyers argue, if he committed a robbery, nor could the act be investigated as a criminal matter prior to impeachment and removal.

--Sam

Even worse is that he caould not be impeached either, because, if I have it right, and I think I do, according to his attorneys, he could not even be investigated by Congress. The president then, according to the argument being made in court, is completely above the law, at least until he is out of office. And, of course, such a one is never going to leave office if he has anything to say about it.

[JimL]

I think they're wrong.

You can think they're wrong all you want, I think they're wrong as well, but the fact that Trump is even making that argument should tell you something about Trump.

Be sure to check your closet and under your bed before you go to sleep, Jim.

Open your eyes when you awake, CP.

[Bill the Cat]

You do know that BtC works for Army Intelligence in the cyber intelligence division, right?

I'm not going to respond further in this thread. I made an exception to my decision for one post. I'm done with the google-fu warriors who know nothing about what I do and where I do it on a daily basis.

[Mountain Man]

It would be far easier to make the case the democrats were being irrational, or partisan, or whatever if the person in office was objectively not a threat to the basic undergirding principles that define our nation and its history and its success.

Jim

But they acted like this when Bush 43 was in office; they were just a little quieter about it because they could afford to be. And remember how they forced Bush 41 into raising taxes in exchange for necessary budget cuts just so they could destroy his reelection chances? And they weren't especially kind go Reagan, either, but again, they were just more "political" about it (Reagan later admitted that he regretted trusting the "compromises" offered by Democrats after they stabbed him in the back). With Trump, the Democrats have thrown off any pretense of being reasonable. Trump marched into the Oval Office with a giant spotlight to shine on their corruption, and now they're fighting like cornered rats because they have nowhere to hide. Do you really think they would dial it down if Pence was president? That's pure delusion that ignores the plain facts about who and what the Democrat party really is.

[RumTumTugger]

What part are you castigating him for Bill. You can't bring cell phones into a SCIF. But normally, the consequences are more along the lines of confiscation and/or destruction of the phone, and loss of clearance (and therefore access) for repeat offenders. People do forget at times so It's not "go to jail, go immediately to jail". But then again, neither is it ok - and the penalties can be serious given malicious intent.

The problem here, of course, is that they did it consciously, willfully.




Jim

Jim, Starlight did not have his facts right the the Republicans gave their phones up. Which means his main assertion makes all his other assertions moot.

[Cow Poke]

What part are you castigating him for Bill. You can't bring cell phones into a SCIF.

Jim, are you aware that Bill works every day in a SCIF -- it's his JOB?