Slaughtering our Kurdish allies

[demi-conservative]

Demi, Turkey is no friend of the US, and never was. Unlike the Kurds who were our friends and allies

Turkey is and has been an actual ally, the PKK is not. Also, the 'Kurds' are not all the same. There are many different groups, the friendly peshmerga Kurds in Iraq are not the Syrian Kurds, the latter are the violent terrorist commies.

- you are on the wrong side here brother... Let me tell you, I have a number of friends who are big Trump supporters they are quite upset with what he did...

Then they don't understand that the Iraqi Kurds they worked with are different from the PKK, or they bought the BS that any cooperation with those that are violent terrorist commies was more any more than opportunistic and temporary.

How naive can they get, that working together with a group you officially recognise as a terrorist organisation against a worse one (ISIS), that is also a long-time enemy of a critical ally (Turkey), was going to be more than temporary. No one really expected such a thing to be permanent, not even the Kurds themselves. There is no alliance and no obligation to defend them

[oxmixmudd]

?

Does anybody else have a clue what Juvenal is getting at? I sure don't.

Never mind, my eyes were finally 'opened'. Kind of scary it took me that long to see it.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

Edited ... clicky, clicky.

?

Does anybody else have a clue what Juvenal is getting at? I sure don't.

[Juvenal]

? ( I know the reference, just not how you are applying it)

Edited ... clicky, clicky.


Meanwhile ...

Our Republic Is Under Attack From the President
Trump has lost the military.

[oxmixmudd]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]40303[/ATTACH]

? ( I know the reference, just not how you are applying it)

[Juvenal]

It certainly is very adventitious to Putin - no doubt about that.

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[oxmixmudd]

I'm sure that Trump handled it exactly the way Putin told him to handle it.

It certainly is very adventitious to Putin - no doubt about that. Given Trumps mystical deference to him over his term, it is definitely a possibility this was 'requested'.

[Juvenal]

What it means for American bases in Syria to be occupied by Syrian and Russian forces

By: Shawn Snow
1 day ago [Oct. 17, 2019]

As U.S. forces make a grab for the exit from Syria in a hurry, reports and video coming in suggest they are dumping equipment and leaving bases intact while stripping sensitive items.

Veterans don't mince words:

Poor planning is a gift to opposing forces.


Another piece from Shawn Snow is more troubling, but far less likely to show up in Russian agitprop videos on Youtube.

US special operations secrets could fall into hands of Russians and Syrians in pullout

By: Shawn Snow
2 days ago [Oct. 16, 2019]

For nearly five years American commandos have served beside Kurdish-led forces as they battled ISIS militants across northern Syria.

Now abandoned by their U.S. partners, Kurdish fighters in Syria are embracing Russia and Syrian regime forces for help to thwart a Turkish incursion raging across northeastern Syria.

The new partnership for the Kurdish fighters may be an intelligence bonanza for Russia and Syria as U.S.-backed Syrian Democratic Forces have spent years working alongside American commandos gauging tactics, techniques, procedures, equipment, intelligence gathering and even potentially names of operators.

[JimL]

Indeed, we have a long history of cutting allies loose to drift on their own the moment they're either no longer useful or they get in some sort of trouble. Say what you want about the Russians, through thick or thin, if you're allied with them they will have your back. And don't think other countries don't notice.

While I certainly don't want us to spend countless decades in the Middle East trying to get folks who are bound and determined to kill each other to play nice, the fact is that the Kurds did most of the heavy lifting for us in eliminating ISIS, and Trump shouldn't have pulled out leaving them to the tender mercy of the Turks.

And yet, OTOH, FWIU, a large portion of the Kurdish forces belong to a group (or are closely affiliated with them) that the U.S. government has labeled a terrorist organization so it looks like we were only ever going to be temporary allies anyways -- allies of convenience. But even if that's the case we shouldn't just throw them to the wolves when they're no longer as useful if for no other reason that such actions will make it all the harder to form coalitions and alliances in the future. And if ISIS starts to reform who are we going to turn to for help in dealing with them?

It may have been a campaign promise on Trump's part but he certainly handled this in a ham-fisted way.

I'm sure that Trump handled it exactly the way Putin told him to handle it.

[Juvenal]

A 10 min video with Michael Doran of the Hudson Institute presenting the argument that Trump did the correct thing to do.

No, it's not.

He argues strongly that the PYD is indistinguishable from the PKK, and as such, because we identify the PKK as a terrorist organization inimical to the interests of our Turkish ally, our support for them in Syria was always transactional. At the same time he confirms there is no answer to objections that Trump's move has empowered ISIS, liberated large numbers of ISIS family members, and is about to liberate the ISIS fighters themselves.

In sum, it's an argument that we should never have aligned with them at all, and not an argument that we should have abandoned them once we had, and in fact, he's clear that's not what he's trying to say. In the process he takes a couple of cheap shots, basically smears of his ideological opponents, especially Brett McGurk, which still look more de rigeur than keenly felt.

[Juvenal]

Nevertheless, Obama didn't write a letter that reads like satire in The Onion.

By Henry Olsen
Columnist
Oct. 17, 2019 at 2:40 p.m. EDT

Olsen rarely comments on Trump's communication style because it's not possible to do so without reflecting negatively on Trump. Like regular Post contributors Hewitt and Thiessen, and Max Boot before he reversed himself, Olsen is a partisan shill. If it were possible, he'd find a way. Olsen does find a way to mute the criticism here, too, but there is only one meaningful conclusion that can be drawn, even by one of Trump's staunchest allies.

That letter was deranged.

[Tassman]

Reminiscent of the powerful warnings that Obama gave Syria. You know that laughable non-existent "red line." Neither are even worth the paper the message was written on. :

Nevertheless, Obama didn't write a letter that reads like satire in The Onion.

[rogue06]

Indeed, we have a long history of cutting allies loose to drift on their own the moment they're either no longer useful or they get in some sort of trouble. Say what you want about the Russians, through thick or thin, if you're allied with them they will have your back. And don't think other countries don't notice.

While I certainly don't want us to spend countless decades in the Middle East trying to get folks who are bound and determined to kill each other to play nice, the fact is that the Kurds did most of the heavy lifting for us in eliminating ISIS, and Trump shouldn't have pulled out leaving them to the tender mercy of the Turks.

And yet, OTOH, FWIU, a large portion of the Kurdish forces belong to a group (or are closely affiliated with them) that the U.S. government has labeled a terrorist organization so it looks like we were only ever going to be temporary allies anyways -- allies of convenience. But even if that's the case we shouldn't just throw them to the wolves when they're no longer as useful if for no other reason that such actions will make it all the harder to form coalitions and alliances in the future. And if ISIS starts to reform who are we going to turn to for help in dealing with them?

It may have been a campaign promise on Trump's part but he certainly handled this in a ham-fisted way.

A 10 min video with Michael Doran of the Hudson Institute presenting the argument that Trump did the correct thing to do.

[seer]

Mike Pence announces he has agreed a five-day ceasefire with Turkey to allow Kurds to leave the 'safe zone' in Syria - handing Erdogan a 'buffer zone' along the border

Pence outlined the details of the agreement, saying Turkey agreed five-day cease fire in order to let Kurds get out of the 'safe zone' and Turkey will have a buffer zone around the border.

'Once that is completed, Turkey has agreed to a permanent ceasefire,' the vice president said.

He also said Turkey agreed not to take any military action against Kobani.

'Our administration has already been in contact with Syria defense forces and we've already begun to facilitate their safe withdrawal from the nearly 20-mile-wide safe zone area south of the Turkish border in Syria,' Pence said.

'We recognize the importance and value of a safe zone to create a buffer between Syria proper and the Kurdish population and the Turkish border,' he noted.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ceasefire.html

[Juvenal]

Reminiscent of the powerful warnings that Obama gave Syria. You know that laughable non-existent "red line." Neither are even worth the paper the message was written on.

That letter was deranged. I double, triple, and quadruple-checked to make sure it was real before posting it.