Originally posted by JimL
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Why I Voted For Trump...
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostGood then you have no problem with teacher led voluntary prayer. Like we had when I was a kid...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostTeacher/government institution led prayer, is not voluntary prayer, seer.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostSure it is, if the students are not required to join in nor if the teachers are required to say it. When I was in school some teachers did others didn't - and no one was required to follow along.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, SCOTUS vehemently disagrees with that kind of nonsense, you lose.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell, SCOTUS vehemently disagrees with that kind of nonsense, you lose. You have already admitted that if it were muslim led prayer you would take the position of SCOTUS, so you're just being hypocritical.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostExcept SCOTUS wasn't actually following the Amendment as written. Hopefully now that we have a new court some of this anti-constitutional BS will get reversed. And I'm not being hypocritical - Islam has nothing to do with the founding and history of that nation.
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Originally posted by seer View PostExcept SCOTUS wasn't actually following the Amendment as written.
"I realize that many good and able men have eloquently spoken and written, sometimes in rhapsodical strains, about the duty of this Court to keep the Constitution in tune with the times. The idea is that the Constitution must be changed from time to time, and that this Court is charged with a duty to make those changes. For myself, I must, with all deference, reject that philosophy. The Constitution makers knew the need for change, and provided for it. Amendments suggested by the people's elected representatives can be submitted to the people or their selected agents for ratification. That method of change was good for our Fathers, and, being somewhat old-fashioned, I must add it is good enough for me."
EDIT: Sorry, my goof, that should have been "Engel", not "Everson." Everson was about whether it was constitutional for a state to use tax dollars to pay for transport to and from private religious schools, and it was ruled it was constitutional. Coincidentally, Hugo Black wrote that one too...Last edited by Terraceth; 09-30-2019, 07:10 PM.
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Originally posted by Terraceth View PostIn Everson? I'm not sure I agree. When the government is actually writing prayers for official usage, I would contend that is in fact an establishment of religion. As for the question of "congress shall make no law," as was noted in the opinion, the writing of said prayer was authorized by state law, and therefore this applies. Indeed, the author of that opinion, Hugo Black, was a staunch textualist. Consider this quote of his in a dissent (Griswold v. Connecticut), which sounds like something straight out of a Scalia opinion:
"I realize that many good and able men have eloquently spoken and written, sometimes in rhapsodical strains, about the duty of this Court to keep the Constitution in tune with the times. The idea is that the Constitution must be changed from time to time, and that this Court is charged with a duty to make those changes. For myself, I must, with all deference, reject that philosophy. The Constitution makers knew the need for change, and provided for it. Amendments suggested by the people's elected representatives can be submitted to the people or their selected agents for ratification. That method of change was good for our Fathers, and, being somewhat old-fashioned, I must add it is good enough for me."
EDIT: Sorry, my goof, that should have been "Engel", not "Everson." Everson was about whether it was constitutional for a state to use tax dollars to pay for transport to and from private religious schools, and it was ruled it was constitutional. Coincidentally, Hugo Black wrote that one too...Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostFirst, when I was in school teacher led prayer was never mandatory. The teacher was not compelled to say a prayer, nor did the students have to join it. Which is fine with me. But to say that voluntary prayer violates the Constitution is just bunk. It is not CONGRESS making a LAW.
If it comes down to your mere opinion as a theist with a high sense of entitlement vis a vis the Supreme Court, whose role it is to interpret the Constitution when its meaning is challenged, I will side with the latter.Last edited by Tassman; 10-01-2019, 12:04 AM.
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Originally posted by Tassman View Postspecificallyhttps://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/establishment_clause
If it comes down to your mere opinion as a theist with a high sense of entitlement vis a vis the Supreme Court, whose role it is to interpret the Constitution when its meaning is challenged, I will side with the latter.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
"As writ"? Where was this "writ"?Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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Originally posted by seer View PostSheesh Tass when are you going to get the fact that the court often ignores the Constitution?
And I said nothing about an official prayer, or it being required. I said teacher led - if the teacher so chose, or even student led in the classroom.
Look, when I went to school, after the Pledge, a teacher may recite the Lord's prayer. Students could join in or not. I had one teacher Mr.P who would read a Psalm. We also had the Ten Commandments posted in the main doorway. No Founding Father would have had a problem with this and it does not, in any way, violate the clause - Congress shall make no LAW. Period..
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