The irony of the New York Times� 1619 Project...

[lilpixieofterror]

Since American cities and suburbs remain extremely segregated by race even to this day, that either means that:

1) You've lived in very atypical communities or

2) You simply didn't recognize the degree to which the communities you lived in were segregated


But the extreme segregation of US communities isn't some question people can trade anecdotes about. It's empirical fact.

--Sam

Did you ever think that people live next to those of their own race because they want to?

[Sam]

Did you ever think that people live next to those of their own race because they want to?

If a fifth grade student offered me this suggestion when I introduced the topic of racial segregation in America, I'd tell her that's an interesting hypothesis and social scientists have talked a lot about it so there's a good research opportunity.

--Sam

[Mountain Man]

Since American cities and suburbs remain extremely segregated by race even to this day, that either means that:

1) You've lived in very atypical communities or

2) You simply didn't recognize the degree to which the communities you lived in were segregated


But the extreme segregation of US communities isn't some question people can trade anecdotes about. It's empirical fact.

--Sam

By that logic, my college was "segregated" because people were most likely to hang out with others from their own culture.

[lilpixieofterror]

If a fifth grade student offered me this suggestion when I introduced the topic of racial segregation in America, I'd tell her that's an interesting hypothesis and social scientists have talked a lot about it so there's a good research opportunity.

--Sam

[oxmixmudd]

So you can "disprove" what I have personally witnessed and experienced. Yeah, okay.

Perhaps I'm simply less sensitive to it because unlike racist liberals, I'm not constantly looking for -- and in many cases finding it where it doesn't exist.

There is nothing interesting about it pix. You rarely post without doing some sort of personal attsck, so I only reply to you when I feel I can handle the attacks that will follow.

Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

By that logic, my college was "segregated" because people were most likely to hang out with others from their own culture.

[lilpixieofterror]

There is nothing interesting about it pix. You rarely post without doing some sort of personal attsck, so I only reply to you when I feel I can handle the attacks that will follow.

Jim

So are you the pot or kettle? You do it all the time, yet whine when the favor is returned. Not my fault you live so disconnected from reality and have to push your thumb on the scales so you end up with the desired results you so crave.

[oxmixmudd]

That's not what I said.


MLK was killed several years before I was born, and segregation was never a thing anywhere I've lived as far as I can remember. I went to school with black kids as early as kindergarten, and it was no big deal.

Interesting. I remembered you indicating you were ia good bit older than that in a previous post. But that is why i tossed in charlottesville - just in case I mixed you up with someone else - You certainly witnessed all of that, it was dicussed endlessly here, and only an idiot would try to claim the epithets shouted there were not racist or were being uttered by 'liberals'.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

So are you the pot or kettle? You do it all the time, yet whine when the favor is returned. Not my fault you live so disconnected from reality and have to push your thumb on the scales so you end up with the desired results you so crave.

We went over this. A response to an attack is not an attack, it is a defense. You attack then somtimes I ignore, other times I defend. But one thing I can always count on with you is that you will in one or two posts start ripping into who I am more so than the actual topic.

So many times if Im not up to it, i just ignore you.


Jim

[Sam]

This thread shows how truly incapable some people are of even broaching a difficult aspect of American life, to the point where they not only ignore decades of research and not only refuse to read even light popular-press essays on the subject but they maintain stubbornly attached to a grade-school rebuttal that "people like to live with people like them", and so voluntarily choose to live in segregated regions, while at the same time nodding in agreement when anyone talks about how awful and ruinous those regions are to those who live in them.

The reality is of course much more complicated -- but perhaps best left to those who actually care about it.

--Sam

[Adrift]

This gets old. MM said he did not witness racism in his life exept from 'over sensitive liberals' and I list a slew of events not like that at all that he most certainly did witness. And the response is to play on just how much controversy was in the subgroup 'fans of star trek' ( a progressive group in general) and the fact I didnt specify white/black when I used the word 'interacial' (or the fact later research found a handful of other instances)

Jim, I don't know what's going on with you, but it seems every time you post in reply to me, you're about to bite my head off. I literally said, "I get your point" before I made the technical correction. And nothing in your rebuttal countered anything I said. I've been trying very hard to be as friendly as possible to you. I've encouraged you through PMs, I've been on your side when I thought you were right (we both agree that Trump is despicable, we both agree on things like climate change and gun control), and when I occasionally disagree, or have a view that doesn't run completely concurrent with your own, or I'm just stating facts that are relevant to a conversation in reply to you, I attempt to frame my posts in as inoffensive a way as possible. I don't know what else to do other than simply not post in any thread you're posting in.

Am I reading too much into this? Are you not as agitated and on edge as your tone sounds to me?

[Adrift]

I went to school with black kids as early as kindergarten, and it was no big deal.

This has also been my experience. I grew up poor in RI, raised in Central Falls and then Pawtucket. My neighborhood was extremely mixed from as young as I can remember. Whites, Blacks, Puerto Ricans, Syrians, and Portuguese all played in the same neighborhoods. I think at that age, especially, you just don't look at race unless you're taught to. My parents were extremely anti-racist, so I'm sure that helped. I didn't really see heavy racism, and people heavily segregated until I moved to a small township in the Midwest. Complete culture shock. School was like 95% white, full of jocks, farm kids, and the like.

[Sam]

This has also been my experience. I grew up poor in RI, raised in Central Falls and then Pawtucket. My neighborhood was extremely mixed from as young as I can remember. Whites, Blacks, Puerto Ricans, Syrians, and Portuguese all played in the same neighborhoods. I think at that age, especially, you just don't look at race unless you're taught to. My parents were extremely anti-racist, so I'm sure that helped. I didn't really see heavy racism, and people heavily segregated until I moved to a small township in the Midwest. Complete culture shock. School was like 95% white, full of jocks, farm kids, and the like.

Very Midwest. But that's pretty much the point being made. Large regions of the USA -- most of it, in fact -- remain largely racially segregated and that segregation didn't just happen but was designed in many places. Rural sundown towns, suburban white flight, racist urban planning -- we have, for generations, built up segregation systems that often have to be consciously overcome in order to have integrated, inclusive neighborhoods.

--Sam

[oxmixmudd]

Jim, I don't know what's going on with you, but it seems every time you post in reply to me, you're about to bite my head off. I literally said, "I get your point" before I made the technical correction. And nothing in your rebuttal countered anything I said. I've been trying very hard to be as friendly as possible to you. I've encouraged you through PMs, I've been on your side when I thought you were right (we both agree that Trump is despicable, we both agree on things like climate change and gun control), and when I occasionally disagree, or have a view that doesn't run completely concurrent with your own, or I'm just stating facts that are relevant to a conversation in reply to you, I attempt to frame my posts in as inoffensive a way as possible. I don't know what else to do other than simply not post in any thread you're posting in.

Am I reading too much into this? Are you not as agitated and on edge as your tone sounds to me?

Hmmm ... I was annoyed that response gave mm a way out of dealing with the main point of my post, and i was annoyed at how hard it is to get an honest response from so many. I was annoyed at myself for being so far unable to write my posts so that I don"t leave a back door open for someone to latch onto and thus obfuscate the main point.

But I hear what you are saying. And im sorry It seemed I was 'biting your head off'. In another context your conments would have been an intersting sidebar to what is generally regarded as a ground breaking episode of a groundbreaking show. Uhura's role, a smart savy black women in a high ranking position on the bridge, was no trivial matter in that period of american history. She literally became a role model for many women of color.

Thanks though for letting me know how that response felt to you. And Ill try as best I can to avoid that in the future.


Jim

[lilpixieofterror]

This thread shows how truly incapable some people are of even broaching a difficult aspect of American life, to the point where they not only ignore decades of research and not only refuse to read even light popular-press essays on the subject but they maintain stubbornly attached to a grade-school rebuttal that "people like to live with people like them", and so voluntarily choose to live in segregated regions, while at the same time nodding in agreement when anyone talks about how awful and ruinous those regions are to those who live in them.

The reality is of course much more complicated -- but perhaps best left to those who actually care about it.

--Sam