Originally posted by Teallaura
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
A Reason Why a Democrat Presidency in 2020 is an Extremely Bad Idea
Collapse
X
-
The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostWhen we start defending this type of action on the basis that it got us what we wanted, "rule of law" has essentially become moot.
The rule of law lost its high ground when the Court decided to legislate. If this means a chance to return to some semblance of reason - and to stop slaughtering our children, then it's worth it. When the Court won't uphold the actual Constitution, the rule of law was already moot."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI made no comparison to Kennedy/Cavaugh. The question McConnell was asked was about what he would do if a SCOTUS seat opened up in 2020.
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostForty six years of baby killings is enough of a blight on our times. Just as people once thought slavery was justified, this, too, is a moral stain - a bloody red one.
The rule of law lost its high ground when the Court decided to legislate. If this means a chance to return to some semblance of reason - and to stop slaughtering our children, then it's worth it. When the Court won't uphold the actual Constitution, the rule of law was already moot.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostForty six years of baby killings is enough of a blight on our times. Just as people once thought slavery was justified, this, too, is a moral stain - a bloody red one.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by Terraceth View PostWell, that still wouldn't be lame duck.
By the way, Obama was not a "lame duck" either. Scalia died in February. "Lame duck" is the period AFTER an election when the person holding that office has not been re-elected to it. For the presidency, it happens when the sitting president is not re-elected and lasts from early November until late January.
Originally posted by Terraceth View PostWhat's amusing is that McConnell's decision regarding Garland actually had better precedent than Roe v. Wade did.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostForty six years of baby killings is enough of a blight on our times. Just as people once thought slavery was justified, this, too, is a moral stain - a bloody red one.
The rule of law lost its high ground when the Court decided to legislate. If this means a chance to return to some semblance of reason - and to stop slaughtering our children, then it's worth it. When the Court won't uphold the actual Constitution, the rule of law was already moot.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSo your claim is that there is a difference in "the people's will" because the sitting president is running for office?
By the way, Obama was not a "lame duck" either. Scalia died in February. "Lame duck" is the period AFTER an election when the person holding that office has not been re-elected to it. For the presidency, it happens when the sitting president is not re-elected and lasts from early November until late January.
It's true that it does boil down to "we'll do this in a way that benefits us" but there isn't actually a contradiction with the reasoning that was offered. Now, if Trump wins re-election and a vacancy opens up in 2023, and the Republicans try to appoint someone rather than waiting until after the new president takes office... that would be a definite contradiction.
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostBasically, you're saying, "I got my way about something I consider truly horrible, so it's OK." Please remember that when the other side does it and points to the horrible thing they believe has been averted or ended.
I got my way about something that actually is truly horrible and did so minus doing anything illegal - weren't you the one who was going on about the rule of law?
At least I own up to the fact that it's unfair - I will note, however, that it is perfectly legal. The Republicans didn't do anything they didn't have the legal right to do. The law should be corrected, I grant - but we can wait until it happens again if you prefer?"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by Terraceth View PostI was saying that the point that kept getting claimed was that in the election year of a lame duck president, they should hold over a nomination. That was the situation that kept getting mentioned. 2020 is not such a situation.
Originally posted by Terraceth View PostIt's true that it does boil down to "we'll do this in a way that benefits us" but there isn't actually a contradiction with the reasoning that was offered. Now, if Trump wins re-election and a vacancy opens up in 2023, and the Republicans try to appoint someone rather than waiting until after the new president takes office... that would be a definite contradiction.
The president (and any other elected office) is elected for a defined period of time. They end their office at the end of that period of time. To suggest that an office holder cannot execute their office for the full period of their term because someone else might (or will) be elected is preposterous, and opens the entire discussion to "how soon before the election."The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostMass murder versus what, exactly?
I got my way about something that actually is truly horrible and did so minus doing anything illegal - weren't you the one who was going on about the rule of law?
At least I own up to the fact that it's unfair - I will note, however, that it is perfectly legal. The Republicans didn't do anything they didn't have the legal right to do. The law should be corrected, I grant - but we can wait until it happens again if you prefer?
And by your argument, if one feels a terrible injustice is being done, one is justified in twisting the rules to suit one's purpose. So I hope you do not complain too badly when they pull the same stunts to get their way in the future. After all - it's a general principle you are defending...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYou forget, Teal, that they do not believe that the fetus is a human life - so from their perspective, it is the state telling a mature, non-criminal woman what she must do with her body versus the survival of a piece of tissue. They don't see "life" versus "liberty;" they see "liberty versus what exactly?"
And by your argument, if one feels a terrible injustice is being done, one is justified in twisting the rules to suit one's purpose. So I hope you do not complain too badly when they pull the same stunts to get their way in the future. After all - it's a general principle you are defending...
There is no rational argument for the fetus (literally 'young child') being anything other than a human child. So if they wanna believe the earth is flat - let 'em - as long as they aren't in charge of navigation. They are welcome to believe children aren't actually children - but that does NOT grant the right to slaughter human beings, period.
There was no 'twisting of the rules' - the Constitution does NOT specify a time frame and no Congress got around to creating one. The expectation is that the president serving will make the nomination - but the Constitution doesn't spell out what happens if the vacancy occurs a week before inauguration.
I think it was unfair given that there was time to complete the process. I am dubious that there was time if the Senate voted down a nominee to repeat the process - which seemed likely - but still, it could have been done with at least one. Regardless, it was a political move and, yeah, unfair. Not illegal, not even underhanded - just unfair.
So, you didn't get an at bat but there wasn't a rule that said you HAD to get it. Life stinks sometimes. But literally tens of millions of children may now have a future - so no, I'm not seeing the injustice here."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNo. It had nothing to do with "lame duck." As noted, a lame duck president only exists from November (after the election) until the end of January (inauguration) if the sitting president is not re-elected to office. Obama was a lame duck on NOvember 6, 2016 until January 21, 2017. Scalia died in February 2016. McConnell said, essentially, that a sitting president is not eligible to nominate in their final year of office.
There is no such principle in the constitution. And the fact that McConnell said they would sit someone in 2020 testifies to this. The ONLY difference between 2016 and 2020 is that Obama could not run for re-election, so we KNEW the president would change but didn't know to whom. In 2020, the president MAY change, but we still do not know who will be elected president in November.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Teallaura View PostAmericans - not just Southerners - believed slavery was a perfectly moral institution. Doesn't make it right.
There is no rational argument for the fetus (literally 'young child') being anything other than a human child. So if they wanna believe the earth is flat - let 'em - as long as they aren't in charge of navigation. They are welcome to believe children aren't actually children - but that does NOT grant the right to slaughter human beings, period.
There was no 'twisting of the rules' - the Constitution does NOT specify a time frame and no Congress got around to creating one. The expectation is that the president serving will make the nomination - but the Constitution doesn't spell out what happens if the vacancy occurs a week before inauguration.
I think it was unfair given that there was time to complete the process. I am dubious that there was time if the Senate voted down a nominee to repeat the process - which seemed likely - but still, it could have been done with at least one. Regardless, it was a political move and, yeah, unfair. Not illegal, not even underhanded - just unfair.
So, you didn't get an at bat but there wasn't a rule that said you HAD to get it. Life stinks sometimes. But literally tens of millions of children may now have a future - so no, I'm not seeing the injustice here.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by Terraceth View PostYes--that's what I was saying. I apologize if my usage of lame duck was wrong, but in any event what you just said was what McConnell said. As Trump is able to run for re-election, the circumstances with Obama do not apply.
That that "only difference" was repeated over and over in the justifications for waiting back then. That's my point. This wasn't a distinction that was made up now, it was a distinction that was made back then. Maybe it was pulled out of nowhere just to give a justification, but once again that justification, while applying in 2015/2016, does not apply in 2019/2020.
He's doing it again. And if you swallow this steaming pile of horse manure, then I guess you deserve exactly the kind of leadership you're getting...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
Comment
-
Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostLike I said, Teal - when the Dems do the same thing to get what THEY want, I hope you will remember your argument."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by seer, Today, 03:15 PM
|
11 responses
39 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seanD
Today, 07:07 PM
|
||
Started by Cow Poke, Today, 10:46 AM
|
1 response
22 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by rogue06
Today, 10:51 AM
|
||
Started by seer, Yesterday, 11:40 AM
|
6 responses
68 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seer
Today, 10:03 AM
|
||
Started by CivilDiscourse, Yesterday, 06:30 AM
|
20 responses
110 views
0 likes
|
Last Post Today, 08:06 AM | ||
Started by Cow Poke, 06-03-2024, 11:24 AM
|
25 responses
154 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Cow Poke
Yesterday, 04:13 PM
|
Comment