Trump the Autocrat.

[carpedm9587]

The part I corrected. Is your attention span that short?

Then you didn't correct anything. You basically repeated part of what I had already said, and left the rest out.

[carpedm9587]

Um... that might be how things are done in Carpeland on Wacky Wednesday, but in real life that doesn't happen - nothing close to it.

He would be PRESUMED innocent until convicted, but first, there would need to be probable cause to believe an offense has actually been committed

THEN, an investigation is done to gather evidence and testimony.
THEN, the alleged offense needs to be...

A) chargeable (there needs to be an actual belief that an offense has been committed)
2) presented to a grand jury, (after somebody - district attorney or other similar authority) has deemed the case has merit)
C) then prosecuted beyond a reasonable doubt.

Often, because the DA (or similar authority) might not believe it can actually be proven in court, even THOUGH it might pass a grand jury, the case is never prosecuted.

Impeachment adds a whole new layer to that, because the Grand Jury is, in essence, the House, and the Jury is, for all practical purposes, the Senate.

If you can't convince in the Senate, all else is simply political bluster and grandstanding.

Yeah- and if you go though my list...that's pretty much what I have said in multiple posts:

Suspect (for reasons)
Investigate
Indict (if sufficient evidence)
Try

Somehow, despite a lot of suspicion and a lot of evidence, Trump's base just does not want that investigation. Sorry - but many of the rest of us do.

[carpedm9587]

yeah tying up congress for 4 years on baseless allegations and investigations?

Like Congress is producing anything anyway in the current political climate?

And I see the allegations are already "baseless," despite not being investigated. Interesting.

You could be right. Better to keep congress busy doing nothing than to have them actually start screwing up the country with idiotic legislation.

Well - legislation that doesn't have a prayer of passing, anyway.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah- and if you go though my list...that's pretty much what I have said in multiple posts:

That's way too punishing.

Suspect (for reasons)
Investigate
Indict (if sufficient evidence)
Try

It doesn't sound as wacky when you put it like that, as when you dumb it down into... um.... nuttery.

Somehow, despite a lot of suspicion and a lot of evidence, Trump's base just does not want that investigation. Sorry - but many of the rest of us do.

If it weren't so transparent that the Democrats are not as interested in "Russian influence" as they were in "let's get TRUMP", I'd agree.

IF, for example, the Democrats were to say "I think we need to investigate this whole mess, INCLUDING this whole Fusion GPS thing, and the FISA warrant thing, and....."

No, they just want to GET TRUMP.

You, however, probably totally believe they are on a quest for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, eh?

[carpedm9587]

The problem is that it's not only Trump who's smoked --- can you say Fusion GPS? (To which Mueller replies, "huh?, I don't know what that is".)

Again - I have no idea what the context of the question was, so I don't know why Mueller spaced it or said "I don't know what that is." Frankly, if I was Mueller, I'd be pretty tired too. He spent almost two years with relentless pounding from the White House, DOJ leadership, and the Trump base as he simply did his job...and managed to keep a pretty tight lid on his operation. His investigation resulted in multiple indictments, trials, and convictions, with many others handed off to state and local jurisdictions. It was an amazing job, but the result is that a man with a sterling reputation has been pilloried for political gain. Frankly, I think Trump's base should be hanging its head in shame - but I suspect they'll largely gloat and celebrate.

[Cow Poke]

Again - I have no idea what the context of the question was....

EGGzackly! The fact that he claimed not to know what Fusion GPS was is just downright nutty.

Mueller: "Not Familiar" With Fusion GPS, "Outside My Purview"

Ya know, it's amazing -- if you don't know something that would look bad for Trump, you research it -- if it looks bad for Mueller... "gosh, I really don't know...."

I double dog dare you to watch that video, and explain how that's perfectly fine performance by Mueller.

Now, a few questions. On page 103 of Volume 2 of your report, when discussing the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting, you referenced "the firm in that produced the Steele reporting." The name of that firm was Fusion GPS. Is that correct?

ROBERT MUELLER, FORMER SPECIAL COUNSEL: And you're on page 103?

CHABOT: 103, that's correct, Volume 2. When you talk about the--the firm that produced the Steele reporting, the name of the firm that produced that was Fusion GPS. Is that correct?

MUELLER: I--I'm not familiar with--with that. I--could you--

CHABOT: --Let me just help you--

MUELLER: --Can you--

CHABOT: --It was. It's not--it's not a trick question or anything. It was Fusion GPS.
Now, Fusion GPS produced the opposition research document widely--widely known as the Steele dossier. And the owner of Fusion GPA was someone named Glenn Simpson. Are you familiar with that name?

MUELLER: This is outside my purview.

CHABOT: Okay. Glenn Simpson was never mentioned in the 448 page Mueller report, was he?

MUELLER: Well, as I--as I say, it's outside my purview and it's being handled in the department by others.

[carpedm9587]

That's way too punishing.



It doesn't sound as wacky when you put it like that, as when you dumb it down into... um.... nuttery.



If it weren't so transparent that the Democrats are not as interested in "Russian influence" as they were in "let's get TRUMP", I'd agree.

IF, for example, the Democrats were to say "I think we need to investigate this whole mess, INCLUDING this whole Fusion GPS thing, and the FISA warrant thing, and....."

No, they just want to GET TRUMP.

You, however, probably totally believe they are on a quest for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, eh?

Nope. I think they are as interested in political gain as the right is. And it's largely irrelevant. If there is cause to believe there is criminal action, there is cause to investigate and the investigations should happen. I don't give a fig what motivates the left. I only care about whether there is adequate cause for suspecting criminal activity. If there's not, and it's just a "get Trump" game, then they should go down in defeat. If there is, then investigations should happen. From my perspective, there is more than enough cause to warrant investigation.

[Sparko]

Then you didn't correct anything. You basically repeated part of what I had already said, and left the rest out.

wow. you really are in denial.

[Cow Poke]

Nope. I think they are as interested in political gain as the right is. And it's largely irrelevant. If there is cause to believe there is criminal action, there is cause to investigate and the investigations should happen. I don't give a fig what motivates the left. I only care about whether there is adequate cause for suspecting criminal activity. If there's not, and it's just a "get Trump" game, then they should go down in defeat. If there is, then investigations should happen. From my perspective, there is more than enough cause to warrant investigation.

So, part of what instigating all of this "GET TRUMP" fever was Hillary and her Fusion GPS involvement --- let's hear you say "yes, THAT needs to be investigated as well".

[Mountain Man]

No - that's not the translation. The translation is what I actually said.

No, I think I was spot-on.

[Mountain Man]

The adage "innocent until proven guilty" is often misused. It is a legal adage. It means the person is innocent under the law, until there is sufficient evidence to convince a jury of their peers beyond a reasonable doubt.

It's also good old fashioned common sense.

Until Trump is indicted/impeached, he is legally innocent. An investigation (or investigations) is (are) needed to determine if there actually is sufficient evidence to file charges.

Like I said, "We know he's guilty! We just need to keep digging until we find the evidence!"

[Mountain Man]

...multiple documented instances of potential obstruction of justice.

What the heck is "potential obstruction"? Either someone is guilty of obstruction, or they're not. There is no such thing as "potential obstruction", and Mueller himself said that "we did not reach a determination as to whether the President committed a crime." In other words, NO obstruction.

But if you are right, and Trump actually did nothing wrong, then you should welcome these investigations.

Right... and I'm sure you would happily accept a legal rectal exam if you knew you were innocent.

[Mountain Man]

Yeah- and if you go though my list...that's pretty much what I have said in multiple posts:

Suspect (for reasons)
Investigate
Indict (if sufficient evidence)
Try

Somehow, despite a lot of suspicion and a lot of evidence, Trump's base just does not want that investigation. Sorry - but many of the rest of us do.

Ginned-up suspicion, yes; evidence, not a lick of it.

[Mountain Man]

Think Richard Jewell, and you'll understand why the presumption of innocence is so important.

[Jim B.]

The fact that you think Trump is Charismatic and has a lot of compliant followers with the levers of power.

He speaks like a New York street hustler, everyone thinks he is a liar, and nobody with control over the levers of power follows him, they all hate him. He would have to take over both Congress and the Justice branch and eliminate them, in order to become a dictator. He would be dragged out of the white house in cuffs if he tried something like that by the FBI, who also hates him.

The idea that he could become a dictator is laughable.

Does it give any of you Trump supporters even a moment's hesitation when Trump says on several occasions that Article 2 gives him the power to do anything he wants? What if Obama or President Hillary Clinton had said that? In all honesty, what would your reactions have been?