Originally posted by Sparko
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Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAccording to Radio New Zealand, a Crown entity so they're pretty much an official source, the buyback program began right after the law was enacted back in March and as of July 4 a whole 1000 firearms have been turned in of the estimated 1.2 to 1.5 million guns in private hands.
Apparently 1000 goody-goods have pre-emptively sent in their guns to the police. But the first actual official gun-drop for the buyback is opening tomorrow in Christchurch. The article I linked says police in the Christchurch region have had 1415 online notifications from people in the Christchurch region wanting to drop off their guns. There are 258 such gun-drop events scheduled around the country in the coming months. If those 1415 pre-notified guns are dropped off tomorrow, and the other 257 events have on average the same turnout, then ~365k guns will be returned, which would be impressive given it's higher than the estimated number of relevant guns in circulation. So by current metrics the buyback looks like it's going to be entirely successful.
It looks like their buyback has been as big a failure as the ones that have taken place here in the U.S.
Though, again, as I said previously, the point of the law is to reduce the probability that a future terrorist can get their hands on weapons capable of killing large numbers of people. The law will achieve that, regardless of the number of people who take advantage of the gun buy-back. Even if 100% of the gun-owners decide to hide their now-banned types of gun rather than sell them, to the extent that the law removes the ability of future terrorists to simply walk into a gun shop and buy semi-automatic weaponry with large capacity, or easily obtain such weaponry on standard trading sites (Ebay equivalents), it is successful. Every single weapon handed in is therefore more success, as it means less and less probability of a future terrorist being able to get their hands on such weaponry. There's not really such a thing as failure here.
If buybacks in the US had been as big a failures as you claim, I suspect you wouldn't be so over-the-top insecure about New Zealand's buyback possibly being as successful as Australia's similar one was, such that you feel the need to make a fool of yourself by pretending to everyone it's failed before it's started.Last edited by Starlight; 07-12-2019, 07:09 AM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post700 targeted weapons out of an unknown number of targeted weapons. There are 1.5 million guns overall - but they are not all banned.Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostI actually sit pretty dead center on most "where are you politically" type polls...
I am seriously considering giving my party vote to the New Conservative Party if they start polling high enough to have a chance of getting in.
I'm curious though as to why you wouldn't vote NZF? They're socially conservative, economically centrist. That's about what you see yourself as right?
You're doing that thing again where you assume that because I am on the right politically (I actually sit pretty dead center on most "where are you politically" type polls) I have to agree with everything the major political party on the right does.
It still doesn't change the fact that the the law was hastily and badly crafted by the Greens, Labour and NZF.
While it was passed quickly, both the previous National and Labour governments had been tossing around bills on the subject of gun reform for years. There's been plenty of background work done. The gun-lobby was able to exert enough influence to prevent those bills coming to a vote though. But in the wake of the Christchurch shooting, the politicians could see a path forward in spite of the gun-lobby, so they just grabbed their previous bills out of the drawer and dusted them off, compared their notes, and then passed it. So I don't think it's fair to claim the law has flaws resulting from its rapid passage. If it does turn out to have some flaws, nothing stops the govt from quickly passing fixes."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostI'm curious though as to why you wouldn't vote NZF? They're socially conservative, economically centrist. That's about what you see yourself as right?
Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostActually, I was critiquing you because you were selectively blaming leftist parties (and calling Labour and Greens idiots). National was involved in crafting the bill too. It had members on the select committee that tweaked it.
Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostAgain you repeat this and leave out National? With bipartisan legislation like this, all parties are given significant influence in the writing and tweaking of the law, not just the final voting. The idea is to make sure that the next government won't simply toss the law out as soon as they win, and that's achieved by giving them input into writing it.
And I think you are not comprehending how much I despise our Coalition of Losers.
Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostWhile it was passed quickly, both the previous National and Labour governments had been tossing around bills on the subject of gun reform for years. There's been plenty of background work done. The gun-lobby was able to exert enough influence to prevent those bills coming to a vote though. But in the wake of the Christchurch shooting, the politicians could see a path forward in spite of the gun-lobby, so they just grabbed their previous bills out of the drawer and dusted them off, compared their notes, and then passed it. So I don't think it's fair to claim the law has flaws resulting from its rapid passage. If it does turn out to have some flaws, nothing stops the govt from quickly passing fixes.
Most people I've talked (and I know people on both sides of the political spectrum who are gun owners) think that it's a stupid law.Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by Raphael View Postmight have something to do with the fact that Winston is a lying, thieving, traitor. (not to mention drunkard). Shane Jones is a bully boy. Tracey Martin does just plain nasty as her default response to anything. Ron Mark is a [censored].
Because the time frame was set by our Glorious Leader.
And I think you are not comprehending how much I despise our Coalition of Losers.
Most people I've talked (and I know people on both sides of the political spectrum who are gun owners) think that it's a stupid law."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Raphael View Posterm, we don't actually know how many guns are in NZ. We don't register guns. We register the owners.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostAn alt for Starlight?"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by The Atheist Poop View PostI spotted I had made this parody account for a joke post once...Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostYes. TWeb's password recovery feature doesn't appear to be functioning properly, so I can't access my Starlight account, and have no interest in any permanent return to the site anyway. But I spotted I had made this parody account for a joke post once, so thought I'd use it for this thread.
We highly discourage the use of multiple registered screen names to any one single member, unless approved by an administrator. Screen names may be transferred and changed but we will request that the member choose only 1 name to post with, all other aliases will be removed. Members failing to follow this protocol may be banned without notice. Members who register a new screen name to avoid a ban, moderation or other restriction on their primary account may have their new and primary accounts banned permanently.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostYes. TWeb's password recovery feature doesn't appear to be functioning properly, so I can't access my Starlight account, and have no interest in any permanent return to the site anyway. But I spotted I had made this parody account for a joke post once, so thought I'd use it for this thread.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostGreat to see you again. I haven't been here much recently. Partly because you haven't.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAwwwww, that's so precious.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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