Originally posted by Raphael
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Noncompliance Kneecaps New Zealand's Gun Control Scheme
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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For the record.
I have been hijacked at gunpoint. The situation was such that if I had a gun and had tried to use it, my best mate who was in the car with me would have shot. When the hijackers searched me, had they found a gun, it would have been stolen and I would have been forced into my parent house (I was hijacked outside their house) at gunpoint for them to search for more guns.
My father-in-law has been involved in a shoot out.
My brother has been involved in a shoot out.
I have had friends (and family friends) who have been beaten and tortured in order to get access to the gun safe. I've had family friends beaten and tortured because they didn't own guns (devout Seventh Day Adventists)
I have an elderly family friend whose hand were smashed (i.e severely broken) because he shot at the thieves breaking in.
And I haven't even started on those who have been murdered yet......
Owning a gun doesn't automatically make you safer. Sometimes it makes you more of a target.
(That being said, I still think our new gun laws are knee jerk, badly thought out reactions by the bunch of useless incompetents we currently have in parliament)Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostFor the record.
I have been hijacked at gunpoint. The situation was such that if I had a gun and had tried to use it, my best mate who was in the car with me would have shot. When the hijackers searched me, had they found a gun, it would have been stolen and I would have been forced into my parent house (I was hijacked outside their house) at gunpoint for them to search for more guns.
My father-in-law has been involved in a shoot out.
My brother has been involved in a shoot out.
I have had friends (and family friends) who have been beaten and tortured in order to get access to the gun safe. I've had family friends beaten and tortured because they didn't own guns (devout Seventh Day Adventists)
I have an elderly family friend whose hand were smashed (i.e severely broken) because he shot at the thieves breaking in.
And I haven't even started on those who have been murdered yet......
Owning a gun doesn't automatically make you safer. Sometimes it makes you more of a target.
(That being said, I still think our new gun laws are knee jerk, badly thought out reactions by the bunch of useless incompetents we currently have in parliament)
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Originally posted by Zara View PostViolent crime rates in Europe remain much much lower than in the US, while gun crime is hardly comparable. While a small number of criminals use guns, law enforcement tends to take a very dim view, and deals with it without prejudice but with the full arm of the law. Officers in Europe are armed.
Where's the list of mass killings that involved firearms?
Your list contains a large number of entries that involved sophisticated terror networks, that use sophisticated bomb makers. These aren't the run of the mill school shooter or lone wolf terrorist like Christchurch and Norway. Which tend to prefer guns, guns that kill a lot of people.
In terms of overall gun deaths per unit of population, the US is in a scary state, it's 20 times higher than in most European countries and higher than Iraq. The only countries that are substantially higher are countries in central America - countries people are fleeing.
https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...t-of-the-world
It seems that if you have an argument, or a crime, that involves guns, it tends to result in worse outcome for people involved than if guns aren't involved.
Now.. as to "Where's the list of mass killings that involved firearms?" For some reason you decided to ignore this part of my post:
Almost all of the worst massacres involving firearms were done by paramilitary groups conducting raids on villages and camps -- things no form of gun control could prevent.
Finally, it does not take a "sophisticated terror network" to rent a van or a lorry (truck with a flat front-end) and use it to plow through a crowd of pedestrians. All you need is one evil $#%@# with a bit of determination.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Raphael View Postthat really depends on exactly how annoying your neighbours are....
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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The OP article is pure speculation. "Fake news".
The NZ government buyback scheme runs until September / October. Only some types of guns are being banned/bought-back (mostly types of semi-automatics), with other types of guns remaining legal. The government doesn't keep a gun registry so it doesn't know how many of these particular type of guns are out there. So even after the buyback scheme ends in October nobody will know what proportion of people owning these guns have kept them rather than handing them in. Any statements about whether compliance with the law has been 'high' or 'low' will be pure speculation even at that point.
It is remarkable how willing conservatives on this site seem to be to believe that gun owners won't obey this law. What happened to "responsible law-abiding gun owners"? Guess you guys actually think gun owners are criminal scum?
Even if some proportion of gun owners don't comply with the law, the law will still serve its primary purpose of reducing the general availability of massacre-relevant-guns to future massacre-aspiring people. The Christchurch shooter bought his semi-automatic guns from a local store. Now, that can't be done anymore. Someone in his position would still be able to buy guns, but not ones that could kill so many people so easily.
Also worth noting that owning a gun for self-defense purposes isn't legal in NZ, guns have to be owned for hunting or farming purposes etc, and have to be locked away and the ammo stored separately. NZ doesn't have a culture of guns for self-defense."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostFor the record.
I have been hijacked at gunpoint. The situation was such that if I had a gun and had tried to use it, my best mate who was in the car with me would have shot. When the hijackers searched me, had they found a gun, it would have been stolen and I would have been forced into my parent house (I was hijacked outside their house) at gunpoint for them to search for more guns.
My father-in-law has been involved in a shoot out.
My brother has been involved in a shoot out.
I have had friends (and family friends) who have been beaten and tortured in order to get access to the gun safe. I've had family friends beaten and tortured because they didn't own guns (devout Seventh Day Adventists)
I have an elderly family friend whose hand were smashed (i.e severely broken) because he shot at the thieves breaking in.
And I haven't even started on those who have been murdered yet......
The huge difference in crime rates and gun-use-during-crime rates make comparing the two countries like apples and oranges. But interesting to hear your view that this still applies even in high-crime high-gun-crime countries like SA:
Owning a gun doesn't automatically make you safer. Sometimes it makes you more of a target.
(That being said, I still think our new gun laws are knee jerk, badly thought out reactions by the bunch of useless incompetents we currently have in parliament)"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
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Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostThe OP article is pure speculation. "Fake news".
The NZ government buyback scheme runs until September / October. Only some types of guns are being banned/bought-back (mostly types of semi-automatics), with other types of guns remaining legal. The government doesn't keep a gun registry so it doesn't know how many of these particular type of guns are out there. So even after the buyback scheme ends in October nobody will know what proportion of people owning these guns have kept them rather than handing them in. Any statements about whether compliance with the law has been 'high' or 'low' will be pure speculation even at that point.
It is remarkable how willing conservatives on this site seem to be to believe that gun owners won't obey this law. What happened to "responsible law-abiding gun owners"? Guess you guys actually think gun owners are criminal scum?
Even if some proportion of gun owners don't comply with the law, the law will still serve its primary purpose of reducing the general availability of massacre-relevant-guns to future massacre-aspiring people. The Christchurch shooter bought his semi-automatic guns from a local store. Now, that can't be done anymore. Someone in his position would still be able to buy guns, but not ones that could kill so many people so easily.
Also worth noting that owning a gun for self-defense purposes isn't legal in NZ, guns have to be owned for hunting or farming purposes etc, and have to be locked away and the ammo stored separately. NZ doesn't have a culture of guns for self-defense.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostI assume all of this happened in South Africa, and none of it in New Zealand?
I can also tell tales where having a gun saved a life. Like when my mom had her .38 special on her protecting her from being attacked.
Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostThe huge difference in crime rates and gun-use-during-crime rates make comparing the two countries like apples and oranges. But interesting to hear your view that this still applies even in high-crime high-gun-crime countries like SA:
Quite a lot of US studies I've seen found gun ownership in the US makes you and your family less safe. The chances of an accident, suicide with it, a criminal grabbing it off you, or a criminal responding to seeing it by shooting you, are greater than the chances of successfully using it to defend your life or that of your family.
The situation in South Africa is the result ofa couple of generations of people believing that anarchy and violence are the way to get what you want. And is not helped by politicians openly calling for the murder of farmers.
Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostLike Judith Collins?
Judith is wrong on this issue.
She is also wrong on the euthanasia issue.
But the law was still crafted by the idiots from the Greens and Labour and the traitors in WinstonFirst.Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostYeah, I'm sure the 700 firearms turned in represents a sizable percentage of those in private hands.
The first gun-buyback event is tomorrow.
Maybe at least wait until the gun-buyback actually starts before claiming it's failed? Even better, wait until its finished."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostBut the law was still crafted by the idiots from the Greens and Labour and the traitors in WinstonFirst."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
Comment
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It looks like their buyback has been as big a failure as the ones that have taken place here in the U.S.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostYou're kind of glossing over the fact that 100% of the idiots in National voted for the bill too. If they disapproved strongly, they could have voted against it, like ACT did. It passed with 99% of politicians voting for it. Can't blame that on leftist idiots.
I think National was wrong to vote in favour on it. It is one of the few things I actually agree with ACT on.
It still doesn't change the fact that the the law was hastily and badly crafted by the Greens, Labour and NZF.
It is one of the reasons I am seriously considering giving my party vote to the New Conservative Party if they start polling high enough to have a chance of getting in.Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
Comment
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Originally posted by The Atheist Pope View PostYou're such a sucker for fake news.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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