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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWhy does everything have to be about ME?
Only the bad stuff is about you.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWho knew he would end up being seen by the current Democrat field as a right wing extremist?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Charles View PostInteresting points given by Sam Kim in Christianity Today in the article Are We Morally Distressed by What is Taking Place on Our Border?:
The analogy is a bit strained. Both Palestine and Egypt were Roman provinces. It'd be like someone moving from Puerto Rico to New York, which they're legally allowed to do.
I'd like to see some numbers on this. My brother who is in the Border Patrol claims that the majority who cross illegally are NOT seeking asylum, and the majority of those who do, have no legal claim. It's just something they've been told to say in the hopes that they'll get to stick around and get lost in the system.
Strange that the author decided to focus in on "evangelical" Christians. Undoubtedly, most Americans, regardless of religious or non-religious background, will admit that the secular media has a heavier influence than the Bible when it comes to matters of national interest.
Christian apologist Os Guinness asserts that when we look at evangelicalism today, we find the world and the spirit of the age are more dominant than the Word and Spirit of God. The church in the United States is strong numerically, but weak spiritually, because it is worldly. Churches in America are both in the world and of the world; and, as a result, is in a condition of profound cultural captivity.
Os Guinness is a strange apologist for the article writer to quote seeing as Guinness seemed sympathetic to Trump's ban on certain Muslim nations, and has previously stated that he believes that Europe, who condemns the US' policies on immigration, is only just now struggling with the issues that follow open borders that the US has had to contend with for 200 years, and has mostly gotten right.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThat's gotta be bittersweet for himThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAsylum remains something a country of good conscience will consider. I am surprised a Christian would make such a sweeping statement. Perhaps the parable of the Good Samaritan should be reviewed?Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostMeh...
If I don't take the personal attacks too seriously - then it would be silly/inconsistent of me to take the personal kudos all that seriously. It's a forum. People say stuff.
Just teasin'."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostAsylum remains something a country of good conscience will consider. I am surprised a Christian would make such a sweeping statement. Perhaps the parable of the Good Samaritan should be reviewed?Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI'd recommend blaming it ALL on the multiquote feature.
Psst...I've never actually used that feature myself...
We know."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostActually that happened in 2008 when we elected the "American Idol" president.
The same cannot be said of the trolling buffoon currently occupying that office.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWho knew he would end up being seen by the current Democrat field as a right wing extremist?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostThe analogy is a bit strained. Both Palestine and Egypt were Roman provinces. It'd be like someone moving from Puerto Rico to New York, which they're legally allowed to do.
Originally posted by Adrift View PostI'd like to see some numbers on this. My brother who is in the Border Patrol claims that the majority who cross illegally are NOT seeking asylum, and the majority of those who do, have no legal claim. It's just something they've been told to say in the hopes that they'll get to stick around and get lost in the system.
Originally posted by Adrift View PostStrange that the author decided to focus in on "evangelical" Christians. Undoubtedly, most Americans, regardless of religious or non-religious background, will admit that the secular media has a heavier influence than the Bible when it comes to matters of national interest.
Originally posted by Adrift View PostOs Guinness is a strange apologist for the article writer to quote seeing as Guinness seemed sympathetic to Trump's ban on certain Muslim nations, and has previously stated that he believes that Europe, who condemns the US' policies on immigration, is only just now struggling with the issues that follow open borders that the US has had to contend with for 200 years, and has mostly gotten right.Last edited by Charles; 08-04-2019, 03:56 AM.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostAnd what is your point in pointing to that? I would guess we should treat refugees and the least of these based on their needs and not on their nation? I don't remember any talking about "the least of these unless they are from China, a muslim country or other places that it suits you to dislike."
Originally posted by Charles View PostI think you missed what he talked about. He says: "the majority of those coming to the southern border today are women and children legally seeking asylum and protection from violence." You do not adress those. I would like to see the numbers as well, but what what you talk about would be other numbers than the ones he is talking about.
Originally posted by Charles View PostI certainly hope you are wrong about that.
Originally posted by Charles View PostI will agree that we get our information from the media. How we evaluate what is morally right or wrong when it comes to putting kids in cages or other absurdities is hopefully mainly determined by our values and not by whatever the media tend to focus on. Of course media will influence our values as well but the main source should be somehting much stronger if you don't want to be guided by whatever popular trend or idea that might come around at any given point in time.
All of this as far as my original reply is neither here nor there though. What I wanted to know is why Christian Evangelicals were signaled out in this article? Roman Catholics make up the greatest number of Christian members by denomination. Are we to believe that the Bible has a greater influence than the secular media on the topic of illegal immigration to Roman Catholics? That seems unlikely. So why are Evangelicals pointed out as though they ought to be the exception? Greater still are the Religious None's (those who are unaffiliated with any particular religion) who outnumber even Roman Catholics. Surely secular media has a greater influence than the Bible on them. If I had to guess, the reason the Lifeway Research study was used was as a transparent guilt trip to suggest that Evangelicals aren't living up to their Bibles, even though the Bible has little to say on matters as politically complicated as open borders and illegal immigration. It's easier to hit Evangelical Christians because they're a soft target, even though they arguably do more for the needy than any other demographic in the US.
Originally posted by Charles View PostAnd by pointing to that you seemingly seem to think that you do not need to adress his point because you can point to an area in which he was wrong? If that is not what you believe then why did you focus on the person instead of his point made in a diffenrent context?
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It's always funny when infidels suddenly think the U.S. should be a theonomy -- but only partially, of course.
How about this: We'll give you your loosey-goosey "asylum" laws if you'll agree that adultery, fornication, and homosexuality will all be prosecuted as felonies?Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
Nationalist Christian.
"Everybody is somebody's heretic."
Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.
Proud member of the this space left blank community.
Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.
Justice for Ashli Babbitt!
Justice for Matthew Perna!
Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostThe point in pointing that out, as I said, is to show that the analogy is strained. It wasn't illegal for Jesus' family to move from location A to location B. And of course, they didn't stay at location B, they went back to location A. This isn't really like the border issue. The border issue sees hundreds of thousands of people moving from location A to location B illegally, with no intention of going back to location A. Matthew 25 is a great bit of scripture. It's good to know that an Agnostic has such reverence for it. Perhaps it'll motivate you to investigate Christ's words and take them seriously enough to follow him. Till you take Jesus seriously, using his words as a bludgeon against Christians to make them concede your argument seems unwise.
Originally posted by Adrift View PostAs much as Christians would love to alleviate every need everywhere in the world, we can't, and we won't. While I'm personally sympathetic to the concept of open borders, there are practical reason why nations don't have them, and why most nations have much stricter laws on immigration than the US does. We would LOVE to do all we can for "the least of these," but Christ understood this call in practical terms. He didn't mean Christians to completely bankrupt themselves today so that they weren't a help to anyone tomorrow. He wasn't calling for open borders. Nor was he calling for people to help every person who claimed asylum whether they actually needed it or not. Christ tells his followers to be as gentle as doves, but also wise as serpents. And, while I notice you won't tell us what nation you originate from so we can see how much your people do for "the least of these", Americans do more than their fair share. This nation DOES grant asylum seekers entry into the nation. We currently grant over 20,000 asylum seekers entry into the nation a year! America is also one of the greatest givers of humanitarian and foreign aid in the world. And Christians in America are one of the greatest private givers.
Originally posted by Adrift View PostIt seems convenient that you're all rah-rah over Biblical influence when you think it might align with your own worldview, but join arguments against it when not.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostWhat Jesus said does not depend on whether I believe him or not. Claiming I don't take him seriously is a rather judgmental claim to make and I wonder what you base it on. Could it be that you don't want my statements to apply?
Originally posted by Charles View PostThis is where I lose track of the straw men. Where did I suggest Christians should help all people, that borders should be open and so on? It is simply not there. I am deeply opposed to the treatment of children separated from their parents and many other moral wrongs committed at the borders these days. However, I have not claimed Christians should bankrupt themselves or made those other statements that it seems you "refute". And, finally, the bragging is not to my taste and does not solve the problems of all the wrongs being done currently. Not only in actual treatment but alse in dehumanizing.
Originally posted by Charles View PostI am asking for integrity. I am asking why those who claim to believe those statements do not act accordingly. Since I am focused on Evangelicals it is a rather obvious question to ask. When it comes to me, I don't claim to be a Christian so I don't see why I should be obliged to agree on everything or why that would be consistent. Can you explain why?Last edited by Adrift; 08-07-2019, 11:38 AM.
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