Originally posted by tabibito
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWhat?!1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
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Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostCase in point. The case where I quote the rape victim that suffered PTSD and deep depression to the point of the possibility of suicide - MM BLAMES HER, SAYS SHE MADE IT UP!
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI do wonder how many of these "positive" abortion stories are from women who escape the horror of what they've really done by convincing themselves that "I wouldn't be alive today if I hadn't gotten an abortion." A lot of these women might have made a different decision with proper education and counseling grounded in truth and love.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostSimple fact is that compassion for the baby and compassion for the mother [sometimes] aren't exactly compatible.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI disagree. Assisting the mother in her undesired condition is showing compassion for both.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostI disagree, even with your addition. It is more compassionate to support the mother in order for her to carry the baby to term than to make her complicit in terminating it.
ETA
or rather, to give her a real chance to choose carrying the baby to term.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostSimple fact is that compassion for the baby and compassion for the mother [sometimes] aren't exactly compatible.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
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It seems that there is an underlying message in scripture to the effect that you can't legislate people into accepting Christian precepts: you can legislate them into compliance with any number of things - but the key to success is to make compliance a willing choice, not an imposition.
You could tie a rapist up and make sure he never gets the chance to commit rape, but that won't stop him being a rapist.
You can make laws to prevent people performing abortions - but past experience shows thatoh dear - I'm arguing toward the "prohibition doesn't work" line (so favoured by some who post here)the outcomes are little, if any, better than allowing abortion.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostDepends doesn't it, on whether the mother is capable of bearing the baby to term. Would your counseling be able to recognize someone who was not, who might commit suicide, who was so traumatized, so overwhelmed she'd never make it to the birth?
Or would you abandon her if she just felt she had no choice but to end the pregnancy?
JimVeritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostMaybe my expectation was naive, that the other posts I made would have clarified my position as being in line with yours.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostIt seems that there is an underlying message in scripture to the effect that you can't legislate people into accepting Christian precepts: you can legislate them into compliance with any number of things - but the key to success is to make compliance a willing choice, not an imposition.
You could tie a rapist up and make sure he never gets the chance to commit rape, but that won't stop him being a rapist.
You can make laws to prevent people performing abortions - but past experience shows thatoh dear - I'm arguing toward the "prohibition doesn't work" line (so favoured by some who post here)the outcomes are little, if any, better than allowing abortion.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
Comment
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Originally posted by tabibito View PostIt seems that there is an underlying message in scripture to the effect that you can't legislate people into accepting Christian precepts: you can legislate them into compliance with any number of things - but the key to success is to make compliance a willing choice, not an imposition.
You could tie a rapist up and make sure he never gets the chance to commit rape, but that won't stop him being a rapist.
You can make laws to prevent people performing abortions - but past experience shows thatoh dear - I'm arguing toward the "prohibition doesn't work" line (so favoured by some who post here)the outcomes are little, if any, better than allowing abortion.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
Comment
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostHaving an abortion would be further trauma, Jim. That's only going to make things worse for her mental state.
So - if that is the always the case, then why not just let women whose lives are threatened by the pregnancy just die? I mean, the rest of their lives they are just going to feel guilty and suffer immeasurable guilt - right? And the obvious answer is no they won't, because they realize they really had no choice. So clearly, a women that believes she really has no other viable choice is not going to suffer guilt forever.
What? If all else failed, I'd refer her to Rachel's Vineyard or some other service which supports those who have had abortions. I'd do my best to provide support and encourage her to at least carry it to the point of viability and as far as possible beyond that - at which point the baby could be born early and still survive. If it came down to it, I'd even offer to adopt the baby myself.
What if by pushing for that viability outcome she kills herself (and the baby) in despair? It could very easily happen under the PTSD/deep despair conditions of the women quoted above. Is it her fault? Is that better than her aborting the baby early on?
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostIt didn't do that to the women I quoted above.
So - if that is the always the case, then why not just let women whose lives are threatened by the pregnancy just die? I mean, the rest of their lives they are just going to feel guilty and suffer immeasurable guilt - right? And the obvious answer is no they won't, because they realize they really had no choice. So clearly, a women that believes she really has no other viable choice is not going to suffer guilt forever.
That is good, and noble OBP. And I believe you would - I do not doubt your sincerity or willingness to sacrifice.
What if by pushing for that viability outcome she kills herself (and the baby) in despair? It could very easily happen under the PTSD/deep despair conditions of the women quoted above. Is it her fault? Is that better than her aborting the baby early on?
JimVeritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
Comment
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostIt didn't do that to the women I quoted above.
So - if that is the always the case, then why not just let women whose lives are threatened by the pregnancy just die? I mean, the rest of their lives they are just going to feel guilty and suffer immeasurable guilt - right? And the obvious answer is no they won't, because they realize they really had no choice. So clearly, a women that believes she really has no other viable choice is not going to suffer guilt forever.
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