A Guy Beat, Raped, Shot, and Buried Alive a 19 Year Old Girl. Guess Who's The Victim?

[seer]

Others retribution. Or simply revenge. Why should the crimes you listed lead to the death penalty?

Well first God instituted the death penalty for those behaviors in the OT. But how are these not just? God thought it was just. Take murder - you purposely take another life you have to give yours up. If a man steals one of your sheep would it be unjust to take one of his as retribution?

[Teallaura]

One wonders why God doesn't see it that way? Instituting the death penalty for any number of moral crimes in the OT.

With only the rare exception, the guilty could flee to the Altar and receive sanctuary so this isn't actually true. God frequently gives second, third and fourth chances in the OT so it's a mistake to assume that because it sounds stern and merciless that it actually is.

[Carrikature]

Pardon me for dropping in on a thread already in progress, and if this has already been discussed, feel free to point me in the direction of a post #.

Would those in favor of the death penalty-- in this particular case or in any case-- be willing to provide a set of criteria for when it ought to be applied? That is, from a moral perspective, when is capital punishment justified, and when is it not?

I doubt any firm criteria are possible. Part of the consideration is the severity of the crime. Another part is the likelihood the accused will be a repeat offender. A third part would be the strength of the evidence. Ron White's concept meets the third portion, but fails to address the other two.

[Carrikature]

As a Christian, I also think that Life is generally better than the DP. As long as a person is alive, they can be saved and turn to Jesus. Can't do that once they are dead.

Right. I think this can move us into the ability to rehabilitate, but that's a question for another thread.

[seer]

With only the rare exception, the guilty could flee to the Altar and receive sanctuary so this isn't actually true. God frequently gives second, third and fourth chances in the OT so it's a mistake to assume that because it sounds stern and merciless that it actually is.

Really? Can you show me in the OT where this happens for things like murder? Or adultery, or homosexual behavior, or Sabbath breaking?

[Teallaura]

Well you find it in the NT also. Romans 13. There is nothing unjust or immoral in having a death penalty.

You're confusing 'not being immoral' with 'mandated'. Yes, it's just PRESUMING that the accused is really guilty. The OT had a BIG advantage - they could call on God Himself to judge the matter so there could be no mistake. We are not so fortunate and must rely on the judgment of men which is necessarily flawed. It is both unjust and immoral to execute the innocent - nothing in either Testament justifies such cases.

[Spartacus]

Well first God instituted the death penalty for those behaviors in the OT. But how are these not just? God thought it was just. Take murder - you purposely take another life you have to give yours up. If a man steals one of your sheep would it be unjust to take one of his as retribution?

David judged that a man who stole another's only sheep when the thief had many flocks of his own merited the death penalty, not simply to give up one of his sheep to the other man. Besides, "eye for an eye" isn't exactly what Jesus taught.

[Sparko]

With only the rare exception, the guilty could flee to the Altar and receive sanctuary so this isn't actually true. God frequently gives second, third and fourth chances in the OT so it's a mistake to assume that because it sounds stern and merciless that it actually is.

Like Moses, David, Paul, etc.

[Sparko]

Well first God instituted the death penalty for those behaviors in the OT. But how are these not just? God thought it was just. Take murder - you purposely take another life you have to give yours up. If a man steals one of your sheep would it be unjust to take one of his as retribution?

and yet the bible is filled with stories of those who did commit murder and were not punished, and more actually used by God, like Moses, or David.

[Teallaura]

Really? Can you show me in the OT where this happens for things like murder? Or adultery, or homosexual behavior, or Sabbath breaking?

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...1&v=14#s=71014

It is not for what we would call 1st degree murder (premeditated) - that seems to be the only exception.

[Spartacus]

I doubt any firm criteria are possible. Part of the consideration is the severity of the crime. Another part is the likelihood the accused will be a repeat offender. A third part would be the strength of the evidence. Ron White's concept meets the third portion, but fails to address the other two.

I think you're right that firm criteria are difficult to articulate. When is a person so dangerous that they cannot safely be imprisoned without putting the safety of the community at risk? That's not something that can be easily measured, and it has less to do with what the person has already done than it does with what they are likely to do if they continue to live.

[seer]

You're confusing 'not being immoral' with 'mandated'. Yes, it's just PRESUMING that the accused is really guilty. The OT had a BIG advantage - they could call on God Himself to judge the matter so there could be no mistake. We are not so fortunate and must rely on the judgment of men which is necessarily flawed. It is both unjust and immoral to execute the innocent - nothing in either Testament justifies such cases.

Teallaura, what are you on about? There is no evidence in the OT that the Hebrews consulted God on every capital case. And I'm not saying that a State has to institute the death penalty - only that it is not unjust or immoral if they do (in particular cases).

[Spartacus]

Teallaura, what are you on about? There is no evidence in the OT that the Hebrews consulted God on every capital case. And I'm not saying that a State has to institute the death penalty - only that it is not unjust or immoral if they do (in particular cases).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urim_and_Thummim

Ever heard of them?

[Teallaura]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urim_and_Thummim

Ever heard of them?

^Yeah, that.

[seer]

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible...1&v=14#s=71014

It is not for what we would call 1st degree murder (premeditated) - that seems to be the only exception.

No it is not the only exception. Show me where this is applied to the adulterer or sabbath breaker or homosexual.