Originally posted by Cow Poke
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Pro-choice distortion
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostLemme add one more .... what a freakin' baby!
I just get so tired of your bloviating, and would like a plain simple answer without the kabuki dance.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Connected to.... agreed
Dependent on....agreed
Part of?
I don't see how you make that particular case.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSo, yes, I agree - the "Pro-Choice" moniker is pure distortion.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIt simply means that women can make the decision, of whether or not to carry through with a pregnancy, or not, for herself.
I'll ignore the rest of your moronic attempt at mind reading.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI have given it several times (despite MMs assertion) and will be happy to do so again, if/when I have the impression there is someone on the other end that is actually listening. You're clearly still in react/provoke mode. I don't see the point.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostThere is some effort here, I know, but it is overshadowed by "the war." Each side distrusts the other, so the efforts aren't going to penetrate very far into the public sphere. Furthermore, if there is going to be compromise, it is here that it must happen. One way to avoid unwanted pregnancies, for example, is to make contraception more available and not seen as a "bad" thing. At the same time, abstinence is also a way to reduce unwanted pregnancies. For the two sides to arrive at a compromise - bring BOTH options to the table in a concerted effort - rather than warring an undermining one another's messages, would be progress.
That is not what you are acknowledging. You would be acknowledging that a woman does have a right to make medical decisions about her own body without government intervention. SO the message would look like this:
Look, I recognize and understand that a woman has the right to make her own medical decisions without government intervention. After all - I'm not particularly excited about government intervention in our personal space! But I also believe a fetus is a life. I know you don't believe that, but because I do, it creates a horrific situation. I'd like to explore ways we can craft solutions that respect your concern about freedom of choice while also respecting my concern about the life of what I see as an unborn child.
In sales, this is called "Drop the Rope." Instead of continuing to haul on your end of the line, committing both sides to a perpetual tug-of-war, you let go of your end and acknowledge the concerns of the other side - then ask for consideration of the things you are trying to put forward. It's amazing how often it works.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostAgain, you have offered no real solutions, merely complain about how we are handling it now. Give us a solution or just shut up about it.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI don't. That's pretty much the point. Your philosophy is not going to shift to theirs. Theirs is not going to shift to yours. It hasn't for 50 years. There is no reason to think it is going to for the next 50 years. This is what you folks are not hearing, as best I can tell. Any attempt to shift the philosophy of the other side is most likely doomed to failure and will only result in prolonging the conflict and more deaths.
That is why solutions must engage BEFORE the conflict arises. Once there is a pregnancy - the conflict is inevitable. The only option I can think of is to make carry/adopt more attractive than abort.
I think the only way is to convince them that science shows that a human life begins at conception. But there are those out there who just don't care (like starlight) and are perfectly fine with ending a human life for convenience. What do you do about them?
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt would appear that our friend has taken his argument to a much safer environment where he can better control the dialogue.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostIt would appear that our friend has taken his argument to a much safer environment where he can better control the dialogue.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThere is no conflict before the pregnancy.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostThe only thing we can do is try to educate them that there is risk and responsibility to having sex. And we do that. And we are called prudes and old fashioned and mocked for it. So you have just admitted there is no common ground and neither side is going to change their minds, so there is no compromise.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostI think the only way is to convince them that science shows that a human life begins at conception.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostBut there are those out there who just don't care (like starlight) and are perfectly fine with ending a human life for convenience. What do you do about them?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou have no idea what Christians are doing in this area specifically carp.
BTW - the crisis pregnancy center I volunteer at is a Christian center. There are few of them that are not, at least around here..
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAnd what would that solution look like Carp?
Originally posted by Sparko View PostI do respect a woman's (or man's) right to make their own medical decisions. Without government intervention.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostBut that doesn't extend to taking another life. When you take another life, that becomes a legal issue and a moral one.
1) Keep pounding your head on a wall that will not move.
2) Find another way.
I advocate for (2.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAgain, you have offered no real solutions, merely complain about how we are handling it now. Give us a solution or just shut up about it.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
Originally posted by SparkoSo you have just admitted there is no common ground and neither side is going to change their minds, so there is no compromise.
Originally posted by CarpThat's pretty much the point. Your philosophy is not going to shift to theirs. Theirs is not going to shift to yours. It hasn't for 50 years. There is no reason to think it is going to for the next 50 years. This is what you folks are not hearing, as best I can tell. Any attempt to shift the philosophy of the other side is most likely doomed to failure and will only result in prolonging the conflict and more deaths.
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