Pro-choice distortion

[Cow Poke]

That comes later!

Seriously, CP, I have been at this for many years now. I have found, over those years, that when I simply walk in and be sweet and nice - I get dismissed.

That actually made me laugh.

Either that or I get immediately associated with the "other side." I can be sweet and nice and "an example" for weeks on end, and I usually make zero progress.

So what "progress" do you think you're making now?

But if I begin by calling out the dynamic - naming it - even if it ticks people off - I am more likely to get one or two willing ears. I'm not sure why that is true - but it is almost universally true - in my experience.

So I do what works...

Wow, OK, so you claim to want the bickering to stop, cause people are dying, yet you address the situation by bickering. You are one confused puppy, Carpe. But you do keep things lively!

(while the world burns and children die because we're discussing stuff)

[Cow Poke]

Indeed, I think I might have said "last word to you" on this issue some pages ago...and am just remembering it. So I'll jump back off again and leave the rest to you folks.

This is working quite well, by the way.

[carpedm9587]

So, you don't "use it", but you repeatedly defend it. Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.

I point out that the level of objection to it is unnecessary hyper-sensitivity.

I'm not pretending to be the ambassador of peace!

Nor am I. Ambassador's tend to be nice.

Here's that thing again where you do that thing you pretend to hate -- the mind reading. There's no need for me to "lighten up" - I'm just calmly responding to your posts. You don't have the power to anger me or get me in a fluster.

So now I know "lighten-up" apparently means "you're angry" to you. To me, it simply means "stop wasting so much time-effort on a nit."

And stop with the "pretending that, "while we are busily bickering over words - actual systemic solutions are not being sought or implemented" - that's dumb. If you really believe that, then STOP BICKERING!

I know of no way to convey a message without conveying the message

You seem to be a merchant of "do what I say, not what I do".

Yeah - there's a certain amount of truth to that. Ironic. I get no attention and no forward motion if I model what I think we should be doing. When I use the same tactics the two sides always use - I often get progress.

Weird.

Not sure I can explain it.

[Cow Poke]

Nor am I. Ambassador's tend to be nice.

Ambassadors

So now I know "lighten-up" apparently means "you're angry" to you. To me, it simply means "stop wasting so much time-effort on a nit."

Laughing hard --- says the master of the picking of the nit.

[Cow Poke]

Yeah - there's a certain amount of truth to that. Ironic. I get no attention and no forward motion if I model what I think we should be doing. When I use the same tactics the two sides always use - I often get progress.

So, let's examine this... you want the bickering to stop so children won't die, but you somehow think that keeping the bickering going is "progress".

[carpedm9587]

That actually made me laugh.

I live to serve.

So what "progress" do you think you're making now?

Not sure yet.

Wow, OK, so you claim to want the bickering to stop, cause people are dying, yet you address the situation by bickering. You are one confused puppy, Carpe. But you do keep things lively!

(while the world burns and children die because we're discussing stuff)

Sometimes, it takes days of back-and-forth, including bickering, before what I am saying is actually heard.

You see, CP - this IS an attempt at systemic progress. I'm not trying to perpetuate the war. I, and others like me, are trying to confront people with the uselessness of the war. But I have found it requires confrontation.

I don't think of myself as an "ambassador" for peace. If I had to describe what it feels like, it's more like the guy standing in front of the screaming, out-of-control person who finally reaches out and slaps them across the face. The two sides of this war have been escalating for 50 years. Few are is listening. Most are busily lobbing inflammatory bombs, all the while complaining about the inflammatory bombs from the other side. Anyone standing up and calmly calling for calm simply gets nowhere.

Sometimes - it apparently takes a slap

[carpedm9587]

This is working quite well, by the way.

[carpedm9587]

Ambassadors

Damn!

Laughing hard --- says the master of the picking of the nit.

Yeah - that happens...

[carpedm9587]

So, let's examine this... you want the bickering to stop so children won't die, but you somehow think that keeping the bickering going is "progress".

No - not exactly. See my later post.

[Cow Poke]

Sometimes - it apparently takes a slap

So, you see two kids slapping it out, and you step in and slap them, and tell them that slapping is counterproductive cause children are dying while they're slapping it out.

I think I'm catching on!

[Cow Poke]

Sometimes, it takes days of back-and-forth, including bickering, before what I am saying is actually heard.

This is one of those times I'd love to be eyeball-to-eyeball with you to ask you if you honestly believe that makes any sense, and see if you can answer with a straight face.

In all reality, I don't think you're as interested in "being heard" as you in the battle itself. But that's OK - Tweb is a good environment for that!

[carpedm9587]

So, you see two kids slapping it out, and you step in and slap them, and tell them that slapping is counterproductive cause children are dying while they're slapping it out.

I think I'm catching on!

No - I seldom engage when "two people are slapping it out." In my experience, all they are going to do is continue to "slap it out." I tend to engage when I have (or can get) the attention on one person or one side. Then I confront them on the part they play in "the war." Usually, it has to be a confrontation.

Like I said - I can't explain it. I can tell you that "being nice" gets me a success rate of 0%. It has NEVER worked. Being confrontational gets me a success rate of about 1%. I'll take it. So far, it's the best I've been able to achieve. If I ever figure out a better way that actually works - I'll shift to that.

[carpedm9587]

This is one of those times I'd love to be eyeball-to-eyeball with you to ask you if you honestly believe that makes any sense, and see if you can answer with a straight face.

In all reality, I don't think you're as interested in "being heard" as you in the battle itself. But that's OK - Tweb is a good environment for that!

As I said, CP, it doesn't "make sense." It's ironic. All I can report is "it works" (at least more than "being nice")

Indeed, the pattern I usually experience is confrontation - escalation - "what the heck is with you?" - and a return to the original subject at a calmer level. I have no explanation.

As for the face-to-face - you had your chance.

But I may be in that area again. I'll let you know.

[Cow Poke]

As I said, CP, it doesn't "make sense." It's ironic. All I can report is "it works".

Metrics.

[Cow Poke]

Being confrontational gets me a success rate of about 1%.

1% of what? And how many children die while you're battling it out?