Originally posted by JimL
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Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...
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"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSure, but a major denomination isn't usually referred to as a sect - unless they're somewhat of a cult, so....
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Originally posted by JimL View PostCouldn't tell you what others believe. Some probably agree with and follow christian morality and so consider themselves christian in that respect. I can't tell you what their thinking is. But Buttegieg is a proclaimed Episcopalian, and the Episcopalian church is a Christian church based on a belief in Jesus as Lord and savior. I'll leave the mind reading to you guys!
I also have no idea what you're talking about per mind reading.
Anyhow, you said earlier that "believing Jesus is god and savior does" make one a Christian. But there are examples of people who do not believe that Jesus is God and savior, and also claim they are Christian. Do you believe that those people are also Christians?
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI think there's some sort of miscommunication here. I'm not asking you what others believe, I'm telling you what they believe per their own self-identification, and then asking you what you believe.
I also have no idea what you're talking about per mind reading.
Anyhow, you said earlier that "believing Jesus is god and savior does" make one a Christian. But there are examples of people who do not believe that Jesus is God and savior, and also claim they are Christian. Do you believe that those people are also Christians?
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Originally posted by JimL View PostCP, they are all cults. A religion is just an old cult and a cult is just a new religion. You are just an old cult member, as well as being a member of an old cult.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNo, they are not Christians, but perhaps what they mean is that they have the same principles as christendom. How the hell do I know and why should I care?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostCP didn't establish any such thing, raca.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostSure, but a major denomination isn't usually referred to as a sect - unless they're somewhat of a cult, so....
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI knew the Episcopalian Church was more liberal, but I had no idea the extent to which the official leadership denigrated the main tenants of Christianity. That was a surprise to me.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostHmm. While I agree the word "sect" is most often used of small splinter groups or cults, it's very often used to indicate a denomination in general. So, for instance, a "sectarian university" is synonymous with a denominational or religious university, whereas a nonsectarian university is one that's secular or non-religious. Or, for example, this article from Truth Magazine claims that most "Baptist sects" are okay with mechanical instruments, but they're not referring to heretical splinters or cults, but to different Baptist groups in general. You can see another example here on this educational website. In referring to Protestant Sects, they name Baptists, Methodists, and Lutherans. I'm not sure how common the word "sect" is used in this way, but I'm assuming that's how JimL was using it.
Oh yes. I think there's been a number of threads about this right here on Theologyweb. A number of Episcopalian Bishops have openly stated that they don't believe in God or are agnostic about his existence.
Have I mentioned I'm REALLY glad to see you around again?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostMy rather myopic experience with the Episcopal Church has always been that they're basically a bunch of old hippies, harmlessly singing to guitar music, and operating more as a social club. I was hoping that wasn't representative of the denomination as a whole, so, yeah - this has been rather eye-opening. I was expecially surprised by the statements of their top leadership at annual meetings.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNo, they are not Christians,
Originally posted by JimL View Postbut perhaps what they mean is that they have the same principles as christendom.
Originally posted by JimL View PostHow the hell do I know and why should I care?
Identifying who you, a skeptic, believes is and is not a Christian, regardless or in deference to their claim, seems pertinent if you're attempting to convince conventional Christians what makes a Christian. You assert that some people are Christian, even when conventional Christians disagree. You say others are not Christians even when those others self-identify as such. I think that's interesting, and definitely relevant to the discussion.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIt's not really representative of the denomination as a whole, although statements like those are driving it that way as conservative elements give up in disgust and go elsewhere.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostGood to see you too buddy! I hope I didn't come off as pestering. Just throwing out some observations.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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