Originally posted by Adrift
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Mayor Pete Attacks Trump's Faith...
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"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by Leonhard View PostI don't know if Adrift is a baptist or not, but they believe that anything we do - even our good deeds - are all completely tainted by sin.
In my opinion though involuntary actions cannot be sinful.
I was raised in a Baptist church (and even attended a Baptist seminary for a year), though I left that particular church when they adopted an affirming view of homosexuality and do not identify with any denomination at this point in time, but can honestly say I never heard that teaching in my 25+ years within Baptist circles. I have, however, heard this claim in the context of defending Calvinism."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post...do you maintain at this point in time that a celibate Christian who is same sex attracted is in a perpetual state of sin even if they never once act on it?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI'm not speaking of people who are necessarily entertaining the thought of sexual sin so much as people who feel a emotional yearning for same-sex companionship in a manner beyond that of deep friendship. Perhaps it is easier for me to separate the sexual nature of attraction, coming from a demisexual perspective, but my question remains - is the person who has prayed for wholeness for years and yet not had that thorn removed in a perpetual state of sin? And if so, how does one repent of that sin? (Steven Anderson suggests suicide, but thankfully he is in the minority among Christians.)
Not sure if that clarified my position, but hope that helps.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostWas it Billy Graham who said something to the effect of "it's not the first glance that gets you, it's the second one." I don't know where the exact crossing point is, but I definitely think wondering about that crossing point misses the point, which is that we should aim for putting on the mind of Christ.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostTemptation is never a sin. A heterosexual man who finds himself attracted to a woman has committed no sin, but if he acts on it, either through lust or physical action, then he has committed a sin. It's the same for homosexuals. Unfortunately for homosexuals, there is no way for them to fulfill their desires that isn't a sin, and so celibacy is the only choice for a Christian who is struggling with homosexuality.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostJust where do you get off making idiotic statements like that?
Why do you suppose he's in that photo?
What about the fact he's listed as a member on his wikipedia entry? Do you go around demanding a letter on a church's letterhead before You'll accept any other person's claim they attend a church? Would that even be enough in this case?
And why are you so hung up on this fantasy that this person has completely made up his affiliation with this church? Isn't this thread 'only about whether he publicly can be quoted saying he's a practicing christian' so you can prove Tassman wrong?
It seems to be about a good deal more than that CP.
You really want his claims at Christian faith to be an open deception it seems and are quite intent on placing very unrealistic expectations on the amount of evidence required to support the idea.
ETA: and here is about as solid an evidence as you are likely to get he attends that church.
https://ednin.org/ednin-blog/2019/4/...sten-buttigieg
A call to prayer for him and his husband by the diocese over that church listing him as an active member of that church.
JimThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostWell you ARE the preacher. I guess JimL forgot about that little detail.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI got no beef in this discussion, I just think it's kinda boring, and a hill not really worth dying on (for either side).
According to this link, his Bishop claims he's an active member of his church.
https://ednin.org/ednin-blog/2019/4/...sten-buttigieg
(Oh, looks like oxmix already linked it)
Also in this video here,
https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/wa...-1461532739696
He says "Yes" when asked if he's made Jesus Lord. He also states that Christianity is about more than that, it's about us being imitators of Christ, and he remarks on how when God comes among us, we see service, humbling, feet washing, and he agrees with the concept of the first shall be last, and the last shall be first.
I'm not sure how sincere he is, but if it'll stop the back and forth here, maybe it's worth something.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostWell...I don't know if it's the only choice. I know a few people who struggled with non-normative sexual attractions who later claimed healing, and I know others who were never fully delivered from the struggle, but found contentment in an opposite sex relationship and marriage.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostMe too, though the book is not written on either of them yet. Nothing says Trump cant repent, find God, change his ways sometime between now and when he dies. Buttigieg confesses Christ, though it is interesting how the strongest advocates for 'by grace alone' are the most vehement to deny any possibility he's actually a Christian because he acts on his gay attraction, although within a monogamous setting.
JimThe first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWho has vehemently denied any possibility that Buttigeig is actually a Christian? He very well may be, but based on the way he ignores scripture and openly flaunts his sinful lifestyle, if he is a Christian then he is likely like the ones Paul describes in 1 Corinthians 3 who will enter heaven but only as one who has escaped through the flames.
First, is there any evidence from Buttigieg himself that he claims to be a "practicing Christian". I think the jury is out on that.
Second, I hadn't seen anything that actually demonstrated that he was actually a member of the Episcopal Church -- I think that has been answered in the affirmative, though it took a long time.
Third, I hadn't seen anything that indicated that Buttigieg had ever made a profession of faith. I think that has been addressed.
That leaves the "practicing Christian" thing, and the fact that he's
A) in a homosexual "marriage", to me, is a major problem, along with
2) his advocacy for abortion at any stage (flip-floppy though it is)
If he HAS accepted Christ as Savior, the other issues present a huge problem.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI'm not a Baptist. CP is though, and I'm sure he can chime in. I don't recall him ever putting it that way though. I'm finding that denominational labels are becoming more and more meaningless among many Protestants though, and the views of one group within the denomination do not necessarily reflect the views of others in the denomination. And often the views of those in one denomination are pretty much the same as those in another.
I wonder if the internet has had that effect on Christianity. More and more it seems that people are leaving their denominational divides, and embracing their commonalities.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI'm not sure what the "even our good deeds - are all completely tainted by sin" means. Never heard it put that way before.
Like KingsGambit, I've mostly only ever heard it in connection with Calvinists.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI'm not sure what the "even our good deeds - are all completely tainted by sin" means. Never heard it put that way before.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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