Transgender sprinters finish 1st, 2nd at Connecticut girls indoor track championships

[Mountain Man]

Please tell me how men are "subjugating women in sports"?

For example:

Transgender Cyclist Rachel McKinnon continues to smash women’s cycling records, the latest being a “world record” in the women’s 200m sprint.

McKinnon, 37, not only set the record in the 35-39 category but also won the 200m gold medal at the Masters Track Cycling World Championships on Sunday. Canadian McKinnon beat out American Dawn Orwick, and Denmark’s Kirsten Herup Sovang, who took silver and bronze behind McKinnon.

Dr. Rachel McKinnon, who was born a man, also won the 2018 UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championships in Los Angeles in 2018, among other events.

https://www.breitbart.com/sports/201...omens-records/

[thormas]

Which brings us back to: How is it not hypocritical to on the one hand approve of the idea that a man can be a woman simply because he says so, and on the other discriminate against him by saying he shouldn't be allowed to compete against women? You talk about a man who calls himself a woman having an "unfair advantage" against actual women, but so what? Some people are inherently more athletically inclined than others and will always have an advantage over their competitors, so why shouldn't a man who decides he's a woman enjoy "her" natural advantage?

It's not or it doesn't have to be. The simple truth is that a man who becomes a woman indeed has that right. However it is also the fact that she does seem (I defer to the medical profession) to have advantages. If already a top athlete who then competes against woman and the trans still has male hormones and or other genetic advantages, I think people in this arena have to consider carefully the impact and fairness for all competitors. That's life..........sometimes we have to wrestle with hard decisions and do our best.

Inherent athleticism is one thing but just as don't allow certain injections prior or at any time for athletes (think Lance Armstrong), the question is the male trans in that category? It seems possible but it is worth considering for all athletes. We do the best we can.

[thormas]

Certainly true, but on average, a guy can beat any girl at that sport, or in a race, or throw a pitch faster, and so forth. By about 20%. That's why there are separate divisions for men and women in virtually every sport.

Actually, in every sport? I'm trying to think of a sport in which men and women compete directly and can't.

If we're talking about b-ball most guys cannot beat a top female athlete. the latter would run them off the court. But sure, let's say 20% (where did you get the number?).

Fencing, dressage, hunter/jumper???

[rogue06]

That was Toni Morrison writing in the October 1998 issue of the New Yorker.

https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/20...liment/402517/

And Clinton lapped it up. In 2014 while on Jimmy Kimmel Live he said that "I loved being called the first Black president."

[Cow Poke]

That should never have been allowed.

I think that was a mix of compassion and unintended consequence.

[Cow Poke]

No, there aren't. There are things that happen in the natural world that the right imagine the left would love to ignore. Big difference.

In your opinion, of course.

[Gondwanaland]

Certainly true, but on average, a guy can beat any girl at that sport, or in a race, or throw a pitch faster, and so forth. By about 20%. That's why there are separate divisions for men and women in virtually every sport.

Actually, in every sport? I'm trying to think of a sport in which men and women compete directly and can't.

Ultramarathons? That's the only thing that comes to mind where women are likely to beat men in the sport, due to their own biological advantages in that respect: https://www.insider.com/women-are-fa...strogen-2020-1

[Mountain Man]

It's not or it doesn't have to be. The simple truth is that a man who becomes a woman indeed has that right. However it is also the fact that she does seem (I defer to the medical profession) to have advantages. If already a top athlete who then competes against woman and the trans still has male hormones and or other genetic advantages, I think people in this arena have to consider carefully the impact and fairness for all competitors. That's life..........sometimes we have to wrestle with hard decisions and do our best.

Inherent athleticism is one thing but just as don't allow certain injections prior or at any time for athletes (think Lance Armstrong), the question is the male trans in that category? It seems possible but it is worth considering for all athletes. We do the best we can.

But there are some women who have the genetic advantage of being naturally stronger and more athletic than others of their gender, yet nobody cries about them having an "unfair advantage". Why should it be any different for a man who liberals insist can be a for-real woman just because he says he is? You can't have it both ways.

[thormas]

But there are some women who have the genetic advantage of being naturally stronger and more athletic than others of their gender, yet nobody cries about them having an "unfair advantage". Why should it be any different for a man who liberals insist can be a for-real woman just because he says he is? You can't have it both ways.

Some are taller, stronger, more agile, above average eye sight, and on and on........we know all that, so too with men. But as others have also said, there does seem to be a 'different' advantage (again deferring to the medical community) for a superb male athlete who is trans to have that is different than the one to one of Jimmy vs. Johnny or Alison vs. Jessie.

And you continue to group all liberals together just as some group all conservatives as white supremacists. Both are inaccurate. One can accept that a trans woman is a woman while at the same time allow that her former gender might give her an advantage over other women who are not trans. Some of us can entertain two different thoughts at the same time. Sure you can have it both ways in the name of respect for the individual and in the name of fairness in competition.

Not sure what your issue is. Why not simply state your position.

[Electric Skeptic]

For example:

Transgender Cyclist Rachel McKinnon continues to smash women’s cycling records, the latest being a “world record” in the women’s 200m sprint.

McKinnon, 37, not only set the record in the 35-39 category but also won the 200m gold medal at the Masters Track Cycling World Championships on Sunday. Canadian McKinnon beat out American Dawn Orwick, and Denmark’s Kirsten Herup Sovang, who took silver and bronze behind McKinnon.

Dr. Rachel McKinnon, who was born a man, also won the 2018 UCI Masters Track Cycling World Championships in Los Angeles in 2018, among other events.

https://www.breitbart.com/sports/201...omens-records/

Please advise how that is 'subjugating women'?

[Electric Skeptic]

If we're talking about b-ball most guys cannot beat a top female athlete. the latter would run them off the court. But sure, let's say 20% (where did you get the number?).

I never suggested otherwise. It is fact, however, that on average, men can beat women. The top male b-baller would hammer the top female b-baller. The average male b-baller would hammer the average female b-baller.

I'm sorry, I quoted the 20% from memory of an article I read some time ago. I've not been able to find such an article or support for such a figure in my recent searches. I see approximations of 10%-15% in several articles now.

Fencing, dressage, hunter/jumper???

Dressage, yes - some auto sports as well, I later realised.

Hunter/jumper - I've no idea, but given that dressage is mixed, I'd think probably so.

Fencing - no. Women's fencing has been an Olympic sport since 1924 (I learn today on researching this).

[Mountain Man]

Some are taller, stronger, more agile, above average eye sight, and on and on........we know all that, so too with men. But as others have also said, there does seem to be a 'different' advantage (again deferring to the medical community) for a superb male athlete who is trans to have that is different than the one to one of Jimmy vs. Johnny or Alison vs. Jessie.

So? If a man can be a woman simply by his say-so, which you accept, then how is it not hypocritical for you to then declare "her" unfairly advantaged if "she" wishes to compete against women? Should a tall woman be disqualified from playing basketball for the same reason?

Not sure what your issue is.

I don't have an issue. I'm simply pointing out your inherently contradictory position.

[Electric Skeptic]

I think that was a mix of compassion and unintended consequence.

Perhaps. But I thought at the time - and think still - that it should not have been allowed. I understand the compassion for him, but the intent of his prosthetics was to make it as easy for him to be mobile as possible. They weren't made nor intended to limit his mobility to that of an able-bodied person, and until/unless it could be shown that his prosthetics gave him zero advantage over natural legs, if he had had them (and I cannot imagine how that could possibly be done), he should not have been allowed to compete.

[Mountain Man]

Please advise how that is 'subjugating women'?

You don't think a man walking in and wiping out every female cycling record to the point that no woman could ever beat it qualifies as subjugation? That a woman athlete entering a contest knowing she will only place second at best is not being oppressed?

[Electric Skeptic]

Ultramarathons? That's the only thing that comes to mind where women are likely to beat men in the sport, due to their own biological advantages in that respect: https://www.insider.com/women-are-fa...strogen-2020-1

You cite an interesting article - women go slightly faster than men after about 195 miles of an ultra-long distance race. I wonder if there's a point at which men's supposed superior strength/endurance would kick in and outweigh that extra speed? I had a quick look around and found UltraRunning Magazine's data here. It's very interesting. It only deals with North American runners (because of their circulation, I imagine), and separately classifies men and women, with men consistently doing better than women. Some quick math:

Event	Men's World's Best	Women's World's Best	% difference
24 Hours	188.589 miles	167.842 miles	Men's distance = women's distance + 12.36%
100 miles	11:19:18	12:42:40	Women's time = men's time + 12.27%
100 kilometres	6:09:14	6:33:41	Women's time = men's time + 6.62%
3,100 miles	40d 09:06:21	48d 14:24:10	Women's time = men's time + 20.36%
1,000 miles	10d 10:30:35	12d 14:38:40	Women's time = men's time + 12.81%
6 days	658.653 miles	548.317 miles	Men's distance = women's distance +20.12%
48 hours	294.403 miles	249.17 miles	Men's distance = women's distance + 18.15%

Interesting given your article - it seems that extra speed isn't helping them get much closer to men in terms of distance or time. No doubt there are many other factors in play.