Originally posted by carpedm9587
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A Question of Respect?
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Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by seer View PostThen why did you ask about respect in your OP? Who was being disrespectful? You were suggesting the kids - weren't you? You even accused them of a "build the wall" chant, which never happened.
As for the "build the wall," there are claims from some it occurred, and claims from others it did not. There is no video I can find to substantiate the "build the wall" claim, which leaves it "he said/she said." So the best I can do with the "build the wall" claims is say "I don't know."
There is one place in the video where a voice can apparently be heard noting that Phillips was "trying to make peace," which was noted in one of the articles and can be found in the audio of one of the videos, but I did not bookmark the article/video and I cannot seem to find it again, so all I can say is "I saw it/heard it" and I find it lends credence to Phillip's report of events, which also aligns with the longer video AND the shorter one. So I am more inclined to accept Philip's account than Sandmann's, but I still cannot say I have enough information to make a definitive statement either way.
Sometimes - the best we have is "I don't know." I don't find those to be dirty words.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThose are only the two most recent examples, Charles. How bout dealing with them first?
Awwwww, your widdle feewins huwttin?
Stop being such a Nanny and maybe I'll be nice to you like I am to my buddy Carpe!
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostRight... when the facts directly contradict your narrative (after all, you were quick to jump on the kids for being "fairly clearly Trump supporters"), just throw your hands up in the air say, "I don't know!"Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI suggest you go back and reread my posts. The OP was framed in the form of a question, and I was looking to see what the reaction to the story was from the right (most people here). I posted similar questions on other fora. I made no statement about the encounter - and indeed was quick to note that, if it turned out to be "acting out," we should be careful about jumping on parents or other leaders too quickly.
As for the "build the wall," there are claims from some it occurred, and claims from others it did not. There is no video I can find to substantiate the "build the wall" claim, which leaves it "he said/she said." So the best I can do with the "build the wall" claims is say "I don't know."
There is one place in the video where a voice can apparently be heard noting that Phillips was "trying to make peace," which was noted in one of the articles and can be found in the audio of one of the videos, but I did not bookmark the article/video and I cannot seem to find it again, so all I can say is "I saw it/heard it" and I find it lends credence to Phillip's report of events, which also aligns with the longer video AND the shorter one. So I am more inclined to accept Philip's account than Sandmann's, but I still cannot say I have enough information to make a definitive statement either way.
Sometimes - the best we have is "I don't know." I don't find those to be dirty words.
Frankly, I don't recall saying anything about the MAGA hats at all.
So the hats in your OP weren't speaking of MAGA hats? What hats were you speaking of?
Then you said:
ETA: I just went through my posts - and I have to admit I'm not seeing any place where I said "boys bad" or even identified them as "Trump supporters." I AM seeing several places where you inferred things in my posts I did not put there and reacted to them. That may be part of the confusion.
Then who did you call Trump supporters in your OP?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNo such admission is necessary. The presence of #MAGA hats supports the observation that there were Trump supporters present. I don't believe, at any point, that I said that proved anything about the engagement, but you are welcome to point to where I said such a thing if you think I am misremembering. Frankly, I don't recall saying anything about the MAGA hats at all.
Meanwhile - until and if there is more video/audio evidence, my position will remain where I have just stated it to be. I think a lot of people are reading into the videos exactly what they want to see, even when the videos do not unequivocally support that position. I'd prefer to withhold judgment until/if there is something more conclusive. I'm not big on just being part of the mob.
ETA: I just went through my posts - and I have to admit I'm not seeing any place where I said "boys bad" or even identified them as "Trump supporters." I AM seeing several places where you inferred things in my posts I did not put there and reacted to them. That may be part of the confusion.
I asked this earlier, but perhaps you didn't see it: Did you post a link to this article (which we now know is false) because you agreed with it, or have you been cleverly playing devil's advocate this whole time?Last edited by Mountain Man; 01-22-2019, 11:42 AM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Charles View PostThe question was if you had other examples.
Much noise to avoid answering.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post...There is no video I can find to substantiate the "build the wall" claim, which leaves it "he said/she said." ....The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostYour "answer" (which is not really much of an answer) was: "Those are only the two most recent examples, Charles." What are the other examples?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostPLEASE stop derailing this thread like you do others.
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Originally posted by Charles View PostOk. So it seems you have not got other examples. Interesting. You could have said so right away and if you think it is a derail it is a bit late to come to that conclusion when asked to support your claim.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seer View PostYou said:
Frankly, I don't recall saying anything about the MAGA hats at all.
So the hats in your OP weren't speaking of MAGA hats? What hats were you speaking of?
Then you said:
ETA: I just went through my posts - and I have to admit I'm not seeing any place where I said "boys bad" or even identified them as "Trump supporters." I AM seeing several places where you inferred things in my posts I did not put there and reacted to them. That may be part of the confusion.
Then who did you call Trump supporters in your OP?
And yes - that is a place where I made reference to Trump supporters. My bad. I went back through all of my responses, but didn't go all the way back to the OP.
So which part of my OP was inaccurate?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNo - they were. Specifically - I was speaking about the young man (we now know to be Sandmann) in the face-to-face confrontation with the Native American man (who we now know to be Phillips).
And yes - that is a place where I made reference to Trump supporters. My bad. I went back through all of my responses, but didn't go all the way back to the OP.
So which part of my OP was inaccurate?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostOh, come off it, carpe. The article you cited in your OP placed the blame on the teens, and you apparently felt the fact that they were wearing MAGA hats was significant enough that you explicitly mentioned this fact in your opening post.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAnd then in a later post, you made it clear that you took the Washington Post's fraudulent story at face value and implied that the students' actions were racially motivated ("Perhaps they saw people who were not white and jumped to the conclusion they were just another form of immigrant?"),
Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAnd as the facts became increasingly clear, you went to almost heroic lengths to salvage the original false narrative.
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostNow you're disingenuously retreating to the safety of "We just don't know!"
I asked this earlier, but perhaps you didn't see it: Did you post a link to this article (which we now know is false) because you agreed with it, or have you been cleverly playing devil's advocate this whole time?The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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