Originally posted by Cow Poke
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A Question of Respect?
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The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostNo - they were. Specifically - I was speaking about the young man (we now know to be Sandmann) in the face-to-face confrontation with the Native American man (who we now know to be Phillips).
nathan phillips.jpg
The initial reporting, of course, would have you believe he was just a poor old Native American man who was being disrespected.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seer View PostAnd you did reference the hats too? Correct? And confrontation?
Originally posted by seer View PostWhy do you think that was a confrontation?
Originally posted by seer View PostIn any case the Indian approached the kids, not the other way around.
Originally posted by seer View PostBut again on your title - whose respect were you questioning?
As later stories came out, I found myself less sure of that interpretation. If pushed to voice an opinion, I am more inclined to believe the story of the older man and I find corroboration for it in the video (the audio about the man making peace, the clear positioning of the group between the kids and the Black Isrealites, the language of the Black Isrealites, etc.. But there are crucial elements missing that leave room for doubt. The manner in which the boy and the elder encounter one another is not visible. The "build the wall" chant is not captured in any video. The beginning of the interaction between the kids and the Black Isrealites is not captured. The role of the chaperones is not captured.
So - I'm inclined to believe Phillips, but the fact is I do not know and don't have enough evidence to draw a firm conclusion. I'm not sure if that can be any clearer.
And, again, this has rather run its course, so I'll leave last observations to others, unless someone has access to additional information/evidence.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWe also have learned that Phillips is a political activist, not a stranger to such confrontations.
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The initial reporting, of course, would have you believe he was just a poor old Native American man who was being disrespected.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYes to all.
Body language, facial expressions, and encroachment on personal space.
There are differing claims with respect to this.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Phillips and his people approached Sandmann and the other kids, go to 2:40 into the video. So it was Phillips who was initiating the confrontation.
I think I previously said I was leaving the last word...so I think I just went back on that.
Let me try again - last word to ya'll...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostYes - Phillips and his group inserted themselves between the Black Israelites and the kids - there is no question about this. The video supports it. That does not translate to "Phillips initiated the confrontation." There is at least one person who notes (it is captured in the audio) that they seem to be inserting themselves between the two antagonists (kids, Black Isrealites) in an attempt to cool things or "make peace." That is also what Phillips claims. The video also does not show how the specific encounter between Sandmann and Phillips began - for that we only have the words of the two people involved, as far as I know.
I think I previously said I was leaving the last word...so I think I just went back on that.
Let me try again - last word to ya'll...Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI think I previously said I was leaving the last word...so I think I just went back on that.
Let me try again - last word to ya'll...Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI knew that - and his role in the Dakota Sands protest. This is not new information for me. "Political activist" is not a dirty word for me. It simply means he is a person who takes a stand for what he believes.
I'm not going to assume "bad" on the basis of that.
MLK was a political activist. So was Ghandi. So was Rosa Parks.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Phillips and his people approached Sandmann and the other kids, go to 2:40 into the video. So it was Phillips who was initiating the confrontation.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostBecause he's a political activist - it's what he does. As opposed, of course, to quietly sitting on a bus.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI think "media whore" is probably a better description than "political activist".The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by seer View PostNo Phillips and his people approached Sandmann and the other kids, go to 2:40 into the video. So it was Phillips who was initiating the confrontation.
Apparently Phillips has a fairly long history of walking right up into the face of people while pounding his drum in all likelihood an attempt at provoking a negative reaction.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostApparently Phillips has a fairly long history of walking right up into the face of people while pounding his drum in all likelihood an attempt at provoking a negative reaction.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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