Originally posted by Tassman
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So what is this toxic masculinity thing anyhow?
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWhere in the 2,000 year history of Christianity have women been more than the subordinate helper to her husband, the bearer of his children, and keeper at home? Answer: Never. Not until the staunchly resisted feminist movement beginning with the Suffragettes
My understanding is that for most of that 2,000 years, the vast majority of people worked at home (mainly agriculture). And the whole family (men, women, and children) had to engage in that work together just to survive. They were pretty equal. It was in the much smaller ruling classes that there was gender inequality. And even there your "Never" is not true. There were lots of notable influential women, and even several female monarchs.
And saying that gender equality was neglected until the Suffragettes is also not true. For example, consider education. For most of those 2,000 years, the vast majority of men and women had no education. As education grew to become more possible for more people, the early Renaissance (early 1500s) thinkers argued for education for girls (and did educate girls).
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWhere in the 2,000 year history of Christianity have women been more than the subordinate helper to her husband, the bearer of his children, and keeper at home? Answer: Never. Not until the staunchly resisted feminist movement beginning with the Suffragettes"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostAs far as I can tell, the Christian married guys I know here would generally agree with the following premise: "When we got married, we agreed that the husband would make the major decisions, and the wife could make the minor decisions.... There hasn't been a major decision yet."
In general, until the women's movement, beginning with the Suffragettes who (shock/horror) demanded the right to vote, women were subordinated to men in Christian societies as a hangover from OT Patriarchy. This is reflected in many NT passages:
Ephesians 5:22-24 ...wives should submit to their husbands etc.
1 Timothy 2:11-15... A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent etc.
1 Corinthians 14:33-35 ...women should remain silent in the churches (and following).
1 Corinthians 11:3-16... Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man (and following).
Colossians 3:18... Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.
Peter 3:1-6... Wives in the same way be submissive to your husbands (and following).
Titus 2: 4-5... Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, to be self controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands so that no one will malign the word of God.
The feminist movement has put an end to all this and now women hold power in many areas from running countries to running corporations. Plus having babies and caring for them
Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAre you really that big of a liar? Or are you really just that profoundly ignorant of history.Last edited by Tassman; 02-22-2019, 11:38 PM.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAmen!!!!
And only a MORON would get that from anything I said.
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Note that Tassman hasn't attempted to justify equal treatment for other people from within his own worldview. As Joel has amply shown, Christianity provides substantial basis for valuing all people as equal, and therefore worthy of courtesy and equal treatment. Under Christianity all people (male and female) are created in the image of God and thus have intrinsic value and dignity.
Under a materialistic worldview it's hard to see how one can ground the ideal of equality, since in a materialistic world, no-one is in fact equal to anyone else, and people have no intrinsic value or worth. That is why Tassman is a parasite on the Christianity he obsessively hates (10,000 posts since the TWeb crash). He leeches his moral values from a worldview he despises, pitiable wretch....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYes, we are agreed that as a general rule it is a good thing for a mother to take care of her children.
OK. So, what is the role for women in your view,The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostYour point?The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostPerhaps if you repeat it ONE MORE time, you'll be good?
I'm not the sick control freak you are - women are free to choose their own roles in society.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe last part reminds me of the 70s and how feminist groups like NOW declared that wimmenfolk should be free to choose their own paths but immediately belittled those who wanted to be stay-at-home mothers and raise a family as making a poor decision.
Our minister of music, for example, has had 5 children with his wife - he stays at home and manages the kids, and they're quite happy with that arrangement. She "submitted" to his desire to stay home and be a Dad, and he "submitted" to her desire to continue a very lucrative career.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostNote that Tassman hasn't attempted to justify equal treatment for other people from within his own worldview.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostPerhaps if you repeat it ONE MORE time, you'll be good?
And, you haven't answered the question. Again: Given that we are agree that children do best with their mothers, do you think there are other important roles for women as well? Or do you, like many Evangelicals, think that their god-given role is to raise children and do home-duties...as has been the case in our society until relatively recently?
I'm not the sick control freak you are -
women are free to choose their own roles in society.Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThat you're either a liar or you're profoundly ignorant of history.
However, I believe there may be a more logical explanation --- you're just a drama queen
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostNote that Tassman hasn't attempted to justify equal treatment for other people from within his own worldview. As Joel has amply shown, Christianity provides substantial basis for valuing all people as equal, and therefore worthy of courtesy and equal treatment. Under Christianity all people (male and female) are created in the image of God and thus have intrinsic value and dignity.Under a materialistic worldview it's hard to see how one can ground the ideal of equality, since in a materialistic world, no-one is in fact equal to anyone else, and people have no intrinsic value or worth.That is why Tassman is a parasite on the Christianity he obsessively hates (10,000 posts since the TWeb crash). He leeches his moral values from a worldview he despises, pitiable wretch.Last edited by Tassman; 02-24-2019, 03:52 AM.
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