Originally posted by Roy
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What is Socialism?
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Last edited by lilpixieofterror; 02-27-2019, 10:55 AM."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf you and LPOT are going to go at each other again, don't do it in this thread. I ask both of you to avoid each other or leave the thread. Thanks.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Roy View PostSome of them even think that if a country's government claims it is a socialist democracy then it must actually be a socialist democracy."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou are not a socialist, you are a socialist fanboy. If you were a socialist, you should move to a socialist country, like Cuba or Venezuela. bye.
So in Venezuela, the people elected Maduro to "represent" their interests. The result is that the state owns the means of production and the people starve. So in fact the government owns the means of production.
Or are you just assuming this to be the case because you have naively believed their claim to be "socialist" and because you have gullibly believed that and filtered it through your own beliefs about what you think that means for a country?Last edited by Starlight; 02-27-2019, 02:13 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostOr I could move to a country currently led by the ex-president of the International Union of Socialist Youth... ie New Zealand.
To the best of my knowledge the state does not own the means of production in Venezuela. I recall finding last time I looked up the statistics that the govt of Venezuela is no 'bigger' and no more in control over their economy than any average capitalist Western nation. Do you have any data to the contrary?
Venezuelans Are Marked With Numbers To Stand In Line At Government Supermarkets
https://www.businessinsider.com/vene...or-food-2014-3
Even the privately owned grocery stores can't get any bread.
Armando Mirando, vice president of the Tachira State Bakeries Association, told AFP that San Cristobal could run out of bread by Tuesday...
"We already had shortages before and now nothing is arriving," Mirando said after addressing a "peace conference" organized by the government to end the protests but shunned by the opposition as a sham.
Maduro also took over the Kellog plant, the GM plant and the Goodyear plant.
He is taking over the press and blocking websites: https://aleteia.org/2018/07/06/venez...by-government/https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.ab2be1d5d527
Maybe we can start up a gofundme to get you a ticket to move there. You can show them how it is supposed to be done.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostYou need to go to an actual socialist country so you can get the whole experience.
Just people standing in line outside of a state owned grocery store trying to get food that they don't have because the state run bakery can't get flour.
The government runs a few cheaper supermarkets which allow poorer people who are willing to stand in line for hours at a time to get some food for cheaper. They serve different social security numbers on different days. It's a slightly different way of doing what you'd call food stamps in the US.
Even the privately owned grocery stores can't get any bread.
So you are admitting that there are privately owned grocery stores and hence that the country isn't socialist by your definition?"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostOr I could move to a country currently led by the ex-president of the International Union of Socialist Youth... ie New Zealand.
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI would be quite happy to visit Cuba.
Venuzuala has plenty of privately run capitalist supermarkets. How well stocked they are is probably largely a function of international sanctions.
The government runs a few cheaper supermarkets which allow poorer people who are willing to stand in line for hours at a time to get some food for cheaper. They serve different social security numbers on different days. It's a slightly different way of doing what you'd call food stamps in the US.
Perhaps the US should stop doing sanctions then?
So you are admitting that there are privately owned grocery stores and hence that the country isn't socialist by your definition?
Every socialist country allows a few businesses here and there tightly regulated and controlled, but the state controls the economy, the factories, the big farms, the oil, the MEANS OF PRODUCTION.
The state is in complete control.
and what do you mean "poorer people?" I thought that socialism fixed all that so there was no more poverty? How can there be people using food stamps if socialism fixes everything?
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