Time To Smear Kavanaugh's Good Name...

[rogue06]

Ford can't corroborate her own testimony, CP, thats not how it works. There are a whole slew of people who want to speak to the FBI concerning both Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh, not to mention D. Ramirez. The White House has apparently prevented the FBI from interviewing any of these people. That, if true, and it seems to be true, would make the investigation a political sham!

Ramirez? Not only did every single person that Ramirez cited as a witness to the supposed event (including, like with Ford, a good friend) dispute it adding that if it actually took place nearly everyone would have heard about it (and yet nobody can be found who did), but she couldn't remember who it was until after, as the New Yorker describes it:

After six days of carefully assessing her memories and consulting with her attorney, Ramirez said that she felt confident enough of her recollections to say that she remembers Kavanaugh had exposed himself at a drunken dormitory party.

These were among the reason that both the New York Times and New York Post both quickly passed on the story as not credible when it was offered to them.

Moreover, bringing her and the even far less credible Julie Swetnick (who's story has imploded on her), into the limelight has actually done a great deal of good for Kavanaugh. First, by doing so, it really pissed off a couple of Republicans and apparently stiffened their resolve to vote to confirm him. Second, it also upset some Democrats because by lumping them together it made Ford's accusations look less credible.

This is likely one of the many reasons why a number of folks on the left have simply dropped the accusation angle and are now desperately seeking another angle -- any angle -- like trying desperately to focus on his demeanor and temperament instead.

[seer]

Looks like there are bus loads of hysterical leftist women on their way to DC to try and stop the vote.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-ne...b3005a0971f489

[RumTumTugger]

Ford can't corroborate her own testimony, CP, thats not how it works. There are a whole slew of people who want to speak to the FBI concerning both Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh, not to mention D. Ramirez. The White House has apparently prevented the FBI from interviewing any of these people. That, if true, and it seems to be true, would make the investigation a political sham!

No Source
Nothing to see here until JimL gives his source for it.

[oxmixmudd]

It should not be overlooked that the lack of corroborating evidence could have easily been remedied multiple times in multiple ways.

not if none of the other people remember anything about it. The assumption that necessarily means it did not happen is just simply false. But the circumstances are what they are.

The issue is this: Without that corroborating evidence it would not be right to hold Kavanaugh to it's implications. But she's done nothing wrong to say 'Hey this guy did this to me' if that is what she remembers, what she experienced. I mean - assume for a moment this IS what she remembers. Kavanaugh and Judge did this IS her memory. Then the way this played out has to be her worst nightmare. And while Ford nor Kavanaugh deserved the public spectacle the Senate turned it into, no one has the right to pass summary judgment on EITHER of them. Yet on this forum that is exactly what is happening in many (not all) cases. How many times have people said with absolute surety in this thread one or the other of them is lying about this specific event?

And then Trump just takes the whole thing to another level - against Ford

And what about all the nasty comments about her demeanor. Oh she 'has' to be faking. I know women that are just like that. Smart women. Women that would not hurt a fly. Don't you?

And now I am being flailed because I think its wrong to treat her that way and dared to suggest it wasn't right. I'm 'self-righteous'



Jim

[rogue06]

not if none of the other people remember anything about it. The assumption that necessarily means it did not happen is just simply false. But the circumstances are what they are.

The issue is this: Without that corroborating evidence it would not be right to hold Kavanaugh to it's implications. But she's done nothing wrong to say 'Hey this guy did this to me' if that is what she remembers, what she experienced. I mean - assume for a moment this IS what she remembers. Kavanaugh and Judge did this IS her memory. Then the way this played out has to be her worst nightmare. And while Ford nor Kavanaugh deserved the public spectacle the Senate turned it into, no one has the right to pass summary judgment on EITHER of them. Yet on this forum that is exactly what is happening in many (not all) cases. How many times have people said with absolute surety in this thread one or the other of them is lying about this specific event?

And then Trump just takes the whole thing to another level - against Ford

And what about all the nasty comments about her demeanor. Oh she 'has' to be faking. I know women that are just like that. Smart women. Women that would not hurt a fly. Don't you?

And now I am being flailed because I think its wrong to treat her that way and dared to suggest it wasn't right. I'm 'self-righteous'



Jim

She could of in many, many ways assured that it was remembered -- that is if there really was something that happened that could be remembered.

[oxmixmudd]

The irony is thick, but you're being pretty consistent in that. Not freaking out any more, just disappointed.

So by which of these are you offended OBP?

You are disappointed that I'm offended by people on this forum denigrating Ford's demeanor or making summary judgments that she is lying without hard evidence that is true?
You are disappointed I'm saying neither of them (Ford or Kavanaugh) deserves summary judgement by the likes of us?
You are disappointed I'd note there is not enough evidence to pass judgement on either of them concerning the alleged event?
You are disappointed that I would dare to say it is not right to pass judgement on someone with no hard evidence?

Or is it something else?


Jim

[One Bad Pig]

not if none of the other people remember anything about it. The assumption that necessarily means it did not happen is just simply false. But the circumstances are what they are.

The issue is this: Without that corroborating evidence it would not be right to hold Kavanaugh to it's implications. But she's done nothing wrong to say 'Hey this guy did this to me' if that is what she remembers, what she experienced. I mean - assume for a moment this IS what she remembers. Kavanaugh and Judge did this IS her memory. Then the way this played out has to be her worst nightmare. And while Ford nor Kavanaugh deserved the public spectacle the Senate turned it into, no one has the right to pass summary judgment on EITHER of them. Yet on this forum that is exactly what is happening in many (not all) cases. How many times have people said with absolute surety in this thread one or the other of them is lying about this specific event?

And then Trump just takes the whole thing to another level - against Ford

And what about all the nasty comments about her demeanor. Oh she 'has' to be faking. I know women that are just like that. Smart women. Women that would not hurt a fly. Don't you?

And now I am being flailed because I think its wrong to treat her that way and dared to suggest it wasn't right. I'm 'self-righteous'



Jim

I don't think she deserves nasty comments; Trump should not have gone there, though it's not exactly out of character for him.

[oxmixmudd]

She could of in many, many ways assured that it was remembered -- that is if there really was something that happened that could be remembered.

Ah - so it's her fault she doesn't remember? Is it her fault THEY don't remember? How many times have you experienced something humiliating or traumatic, and something you believed you could do nothing about, that you just tried to forget?

But that IS that attitude I'm talking about. Why? Why is it so hard to just empathize with her for a few seconds and realize that hey, if she's lying she just made a fool of herself and deserves what has happened, but if not, then hey, she must be absolutely miserable. Shes facing absolute and complete public humiliation over trying to do what was right as she understood it. Why not just back off with the judgment just in case she's telling the truth? That doesn't mean you won't argue for Kavanaugh. It just means you won't be purposefully cruel to her. Is that really all that bad or hard a thing to do?


Jim

[One Bad Pig]

So by which of these are you offended OBP?

You are disappointed that I'm offended by people on this forum denigrating Ford's demeanor or making summary judgments that she is lying without hard evidence that is true?
You are disappointed I'm saying neither of them (Ford or Kavanaugh) deserves summary judgement by the likes of us?
You are disappointed I'd note there is not enough evidence to pass judgement on either of them concerning the alleged event?
You are disappointed that I would dare to say it is not right to pass judgement on someone with no hard evidence?

Or is it something else?


Jim

It's not worth getting into, Jim. I shouldn't have posted.

[oxmixmudd]

It's not worth getting into, Jim. I shouldn't have posted.

ok.

Jim

[Sparko]

What I implied was that the courts depend upon evidence and though this is not a court/criminal proceeding, evidence is still necessary in order reach reasonable conclusions. In other words there is a difference between "he said, she said" testimony and corroborating evidence.

This would never have gotten to a court. At this point it is just an accusation. And the FBI has already done their investigation and decided there is nothing to pursue. Just like everyone said before. IF Kavanaugh did this, the time to investigate it would have been at the time of the incident. That is when Ford should have reported it. That is why we have statutes of limitations on various crimes too. Because memories change, evidence gets lost or made up and it becomes impossible to do a good investigation.

and in this case everyone who might have corroborated Ford did not. They either outright denied it happened or said they had no memory of this incident.

How would you like it if I tried to sue you for that time you came over to my house 20 years ago and robbed me at gunpoint? I clearly remember it was you. 100%. And Tassman was right there to witness it. And Oxmixmudd, my bestest friend. I told him about it 5 years ago. So you see I have plenty of evidence.

[Sparko]

not if none of the other people remember anything about it. The assumption that necessarily means it did not happen is just simply false. But the circumstances are what they are.

The issue is this: Without that corroborating evidence it would not be right to hold Kavanaugh to it's implications. But she's done nothing wrong to say 'Hey this guy did this to me' if that is what she remembers, what she experienced. I mean - assume for a moment this IS what she remembers. Kavanaugh and Judge did this IS her memory. Then the way this played out has to be her worst nightmare. And while Ford nor Kavanaugh deserved the public spectacle the Senate turned it into, no one has the right to pass summary judgment on EITHER of them. Yet on this forum that is exactly what is happening in many (not all) cases. How many times have people said with absolute surety in this thread one or the other of them is lying about this specific event?

And then Trump just takes the whole thing to another level - against Ford

And what about all the nasty comments about her demeanor. Oh she 'has' to be faking. I know women that are just like that. Smart women. Women that would not hurt a fly. Don't you?

And now I am being flailed because I think its wrong to treat her that way and dared to suggest it wasn't right. I'm 'self-righteous'



Jim

Where it stands now, Kavanaugh could easily sue her for defamation and win, assuming he could get a fair jury. But he won't do it because in this climate they would just accuse him of beating her up because he is an evil white man.

[Cow Poke]

Ford can't corroborate her own testimony, CP, thats not how it works.

Which testimony? It's all over the map, and with little to no verifiable detail.

There are a whole slew of people who want to speak to the FBI concerning both Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh, not to mention D. Ramirez.

And it would be counterproductive for the FBI to interview them. That's what you're not getting - the FBI, in a background investigation, simply takes statements. Any nut can make any statement they want, and there's no cross-examination, no lie detector, no real challenge to their statement - the FBI just writes down what they say.

The White House has apparently prevented the FBI from interviewing any of these people.

I find that not very credible. If I were the FBI, and a "whole slew of people" wanted to be interviewed in a very politically charged atmosphere, I'd focus my attention on the matter at hand.

That, if true, and it seems to be true, would make the investigation a political sham!

You can't make a political sham a sham. It was a sham from the very git-go when DiFi decided to sit on the issue only to spring it as a desperate political... sham.

[Sparko]

Ah - so it's her fault she doesn't remember? Is it her fault THEY don't remember? How many times have you experienced something humiliating or traumatic, and something you believed you could do nothing about, that you just tried to forget?

But that IS that attitude I'm talking about. Why? Why is it so hard to just empathize with her for a few seconds and realize that hey, if she's lying she just made a fool of herself and deserves what has happened, but if not, then hey, she must be absolutely miserable. Shes facing absolute and complete public humiliation over trying to do what was right as she understood it. Why not just back off with the judgment just in case she's telling the truth? That doesn't mean you won't argue for Kavanaugh. It just means you won't be purposefully cruel to her. Is that really all that bad or hard a thing to do?


Jim

actually yeah in a way it is her younger self's "fault" for not reporting it when it happened, or soon thereafter, or at least telling her parents or friends about it. Because of her not doing that, there is nothing her present self can do to remedy her trauma.

[rogue06]

I don't think she deserves nasty comments; Trump should not have gone there, though it's not exactly out of character for him.

Nothing he said wasn't true, but it was his sneering tone when he said it that came across as nasty. So it wasn't so much what he said it as the way he said it.