DeSantis Uses Racist Dog Whistle...

[oxmixmudd]

Intent is everything. Some phrases, such as "blacks are monkeys" are racist slurs, no matter what (although you can use them in a non-racist way depending on context, i.e. in an academic setting). When it comes to phrases such as "monkey it up" on the other hand, you need to judge, not only the context, but also the intent of the speaker to determine if the phrase is racist. Simply claiming that it's a racist slur because DeSantis used it to negatively describe certain policies of his political opponent isn't enough to establish the phrase as a racist slur, even if Gillum is black.

I disagree. The phrase caries that as a potential meaning - that is simply reality. That is why DeSantis should make clear that potential meaning, though it exists, is NOT what he was trying to say. And it is simply common decency to apologize since it could have carried that meaning. Not that anyone in these pages arguing with me seems to care about common decency.

If you cannot establish what DeSantis intent was with the phrase "monkey it up" there is no way to definitely judge either way on the matter. Speculating about "double entendres" and comparing what he said with quotes from other politicians (like Carla Moloney) where racist slurs of the first kind ("blacks are monkeys") are used isn't enough to determine if the phrase he used was being used in a racist manner or not.

The only thing we can say is that, yes, the phrase could have racist connotations, but that depends entirely on the intent of the one using the phrase, and that DeSantis use of the phrase could definitely be criticized as thoughtless, not because it's necessarily racist, but because he should have known that some people are going to regard his use of the phrase (unjustly or not) as racist, no matter what his underlying intent.

We agree more or less. The difference is: a non-racist, a person that wants to help heal the racial divide, to build bridges across that racial divide, would care that the phrase could carry that meaning and would want to apologize for the fact it might have carried that meaning and been interpreted that way.

But that is not what we are seeing here - and that significantly enhances the likelihood there is racism involved here one way or the other.


Jim

[oxmixmudd]

Apparently - I'm not alone. The statement was made in the context of the gubernatorial race, as a warning to the voting public - a race in which his opponent, the one likely to bring the ugliness of socialism, is a black man. Desantis was stupid.

Carpe - they don't want to recognize that callous disregard for the effect of racism on black people in this country is a bad thing. And they especially don't want to admit that a white candidate for political office carries a responsibility to not to make that worse, let alone actively work to make it better.


Jim

[rogue06]

For a little humorous perspective...

Note how one even says "monkey up the works"

[Mountain Man]

Apparently - I'm not alone.

Unfortunately not. Seems there are a lot of liberals like you who see the word "monkey" and immediately think "black person".

[carpedm9587]

Yeah, that argument never worked for me, either....

Well, I never saw it that way, and I'm not alone*.....

*I win!

Congratulations.

But it's not really about you or me winning. In the end, it's about the damage DeSantis did to himself. We shall see... in a mere 9 weeks...

[carpedm9587]

Carpe - they don't want to recognize that callous disregard for the effect of racism on black people in this country is a bad thing. And they especially don't want to admit that a white candidate for political office carries a responsibility to not to make that worse, let alone actively work to make it better.

Jim

When the issue of racism comes up on this forum, most (all?) of the time what comes back is denial. I suspect (but cannot prove) that it is at least in part a reaction to the left's tendency to scream "racism" at the drop of a hat, even when the issue is not racism. In this case, a quick look at DeSantis' background gives me no reason to think he's actually racist. So he's guilty of being a bit stupid and insensitive. A quick clarification and apology if anyone was offended by his use of language would probably have set most of this to rest. Instead he "did a Trump," and dug in. After all - the new normal is "never apologize - it's a sign of weakness."

Frankly, it's not. An apology is actually the act of a strong, self-assured person who knows that they will not be diminished by admitting an error or a harm (even an unintentional one). It takes a person with a weak ego to dig in.

[carpedm9587]

Unfortunately not. Seems there are a lot of liberals like you who see the word "monkey" and immediately think "black person".

Actually - not.

But when someone uses the term in a statement that is directly or tangentially about a black person, THAT gets attention if you're a politician. I use the expression "monkey wrench" and "monkey around" and so forth all the time. Never think twice about it, and I have two black children. But I'm not running for office...

[Cow Poke]

Congratulations.

But it's not really about you or me winning. In the end, it's about the damage DeSantis did to himself. We shall see... in a mere 9 weeks...

But DO feel free to flog away!

[Cow Poke]

When the issue of racism comes up on this forum, most (all?) of the time what comes back is denial. I suspect (but cannot prove) that it is at least in part a reaction to the left's tendency to scream "racism" at the drop of a hat, even when the issue is not racism.

There's a WHOLE lot of truth in that! I really really gets old.

In this case, a quick look at DeSantis' background gives me no reason to think he's actually racist.

On that, we have agreed.

So he's guilty of being a bit stupid and insensitive.

OR, he's just refusing to knuckle under the pressure to make a false confession!

A quick clarification and apology if anyone was offended by his use of language would probably have set most of this to rest. Instead he "did a Trump," and dug in. After all - the new normal is "never apologize - it's a sign of weakness."

I don't buy that. The left is never gracious about such apologies. All it would do is prove he was a racist all along, and was denying it.

Frankly, it's not. An apology is actually the act of a strong, self-assured person who knows that they will not be diminished by admitting an error or a harm (even an unintentional one). It takes a person with a weak ego to dig in.

And a coerced apology is no apology at all.

[Mountain Man]

But when someone uses the term in a statement that is directly or tangentially about a black person...

Which is not at all what DeSantis did.

[oxmixmudd]

And a coerced apology is no apology at all.

If he has to be coerced, then there is something wrong with him. Again, if I accidentally hit someone in the face, I will apologize. The need for an apology is not diminished by the fact it was an accident. But the probability of continued good will between the parties involved is greatly increased.


Jim

[Mountain Man]

OR, he's just refusing to knuckle under the pressure to make a false confession!

This liberal narrative that DeSantis can make this all go away simply by apologizing is disingenuous. On the contrary, the narrative would simply shift to "He wouldn't have to apologize if he wasn't a racist."

[Cow Poke]

If he has to be coerced, then there is something wrong with him. Again, if I accidentally hit someone in the face, I will apologize.

That is an actual act, not a perceived one -- of COURSE you should apologize if you actually hit somebody in the face accidentally.

The need for an apology is not diminished by the fact it was an accident.

Absolutely agreed.

But the probability of continued good will between the parties involved is greatly increased.


Jim

And you HONESTLY believe that an apology would have caused the liberals to say, "oh, alrighty then, all is well"?

[lilpixieofterror]

Carpe - they don't want to recognize that callous disregard for the effect of racism on black people in this country is a bad thing. And they especially don't want to admit that a white candidate for political office carries a responsibility to not to make that worse, let alone actively work to make it better.


Jim

[Sparko]

If he has to be coerced, then there is something wrong with him. Again, if I accidentally hit someone in the face, I will apologize. The need for an apology is not diminished by the fact it was an accident. But the probability of continued good will between the parties involved is greatly increased.


Jim

What if you accidentally bumped into me and I start claiming you assaulted me and went to the newspapers and shared the story how you just came out of the blue and assaulted me for no reason except you hate people like me?

Would you apologize then? If so, then I successfully manipulated you.