Colorado After Christian Baker - Again!

[Zymologist]

The assertion that cake decorating is not an art is, quite frankly, laughable.

[Cow Poke]

The assertion that cake decorating is not an art is, quite frankly, laughable.

EGGzackly, and flourly, and sugarly, and icingly and fondantly.....

[oxmixmudd]

I find it nearly impossible to believe that there are grown men in the civilized world who stake their argument on a wedding cake being "just a cake". I think that requires a pretty high level of willful ignorance or even outright dishonesty.

It's sort of a self-deceptive dishonesty. Or perhaps like a child when told they can't have what they want closing out reason and just screaming 'NO!'. But I do not have a reliable technique for calming that response in adults and enlisting their more objective side to think clearly about all the variables involved as opposed to just the ones they want to care about. In all honesty, it is a very hard thing to do even if one knows it needs to be done. It requires a significant amount of self-discipline and commitment to what is really true over what one wants to be true.

In this case the 'screaming no' revolves mostly around the attempt to exclude the artwork the baker produces as 'art'. Tassman knows full well art can't be forced or prohibited per the 1st amendment. I think anyone looking the cakes produced, without knowing anything about this case, would say (in one form or another) - "wow, the ART-work on that cake is incredible!"


Jim

[Sparko]

The assertion that cake decorating is not an art is, quite frankly, laughable.

Tassman is desperate to keep from admitting he is wrong. He will go to any lengths to keep from admitting that, even to coming up with idiotic claims that he doesn't believe himself.

[mossrose]

A simple search for "artistic wedding cakes" provides this, among others.

https://www.google.com/search?q=arti...CAYQHg#imgrc=_

Denying that these are art is simple ignorance.

[Cow Poke]

Once again, if it wasn't "art", you could just go to Walmart or Sam's or Kroger's and pick up one up from the bakery display case... heck, they'll even write your names on them! Then plop two little dude statues on top, and ya got it!!!

[thewriteranon]

I detest cake, as it tends to be far too sweet and often too dry (though layers of mousse or ice cream can mitigate dryness). However, cake art is super impressive and I enjoy looking at it.

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ambermcc.l.ss.africa.jpg

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Beth+A+.+lotr+2.jpg

All these were found in the Sunday Sweets category at cakewrecks.blogspot.com

The third one apparently lights up

[Tassman]

Actually you're the one making the logical fallacy. You're special pleading that there's a difference between them. There isn't. To me it doesn't matter whether its a cake, t-shirt print (remember there are LGBTQ who support the rights of Christians here), car ornamentation, custom topiary decoration, song, book, paint (on any canvas whether skin, paper, concrete, ice or soil) sticker designs, architecture...

All of that can reasonably fall under custom made art.

I believe therefore they should be protected under Freedom of Speech, which does trump any Civil Rights concerns, and for good reasons.

All civil rights are equally important, including freedom of religious beliefs and freedom from discrimination.

[rogue06]

Look at the images in thewriteranon's post right above yours. While not wedding cakes how can you continue to pretend that isn't art? And if you want wedding cakes go to the link that mossy provided.

[Cow Poke]

Not really!

The idea that wedding cake is not "art" is just downright idiotic. That you have to use the "it's just a cake" argument shows how bankrupt your argument is.

[thewriteranon]

How about some wedding favorites out of the Sunday Sweets over at cakewrecks?

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James+f+-+lw-burton.jpg

Plus literally everything in this Disney weddings post: http://www.cakewrecks.com/home/2016/...ing-cakes.html

Almost makes me wish I had a cake at my wedding. Almost.

[Leonhard]

Not really! **Oxford Dictionary**

**sarcasm mode on** I'm glad to see that you're a successful graduate of Googleversity. Type in "art definition", find the Oxford Living Dictionary webpage, and select their 3rd definition and argue from that. The breath and depth of your argument floors everyone here Tassman. You display complete impartiality to the question, not simply seeking in bad faith the form of the argument best benefiting your case. **sarcasm mode off**

Let's take definition 1. which you skipped over. I'm also curious to see your quote unnumbered, as if what you gave was the primary definition.

1. The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power. 1.1 Works produced by human creative skill and imagination. 1.2Creative activity resulting in the production of paintings, drawings, or sculpture.
2. The various branches of creative activity, such as painting, music, literature, and dance.
3. ** The one Tassman chose **
4. A skill at doing a specified thing, typically one acquired through practice.

It seems that the Oxford Dictionary has quite a bit broader definition than you gave it. Only definition three really fits the way you want the word to be used. Under that definition architecture should not be discussed as art, nor should garden arrangement. But just skills, no different than plumbing, or electrical engineering. That would be a rather controversial position to take. Though I take it you're ready to bite the bullet on that one?

If you do, I'll disagree with you, as its quite clear that those fields are artistic in nature.

The important thing here is what the legal definition of art is. And that's a much harder question, which you seem to studiously ignore. Because its a question that's largely remained undecided. For good reasons. And I certainly hope the Supreme Court in the US comes to a decision eventually in regards to this, that avoids them having to legally define what a work of art is.

That's why the legal argument Christians are making is focusing almost entirely on Freedom of Speech. The Baker is asked to make a custom work, reflecting a certain set of values, and he refuses to do so. In other cases, such as t-shirt printers, logo designers, etc... refusing to do a commission like that based on the message is already legally accepted.

For a professional cake maker to use the "art argument" is no more than a rationalisation of discriminatory bigotry and is contrary to the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Its really the freedom of speech argument. We're only talking about art because you're arguing that no custom work is taking place, and that no expression of speech is being made.

All civil rights are equally important, including freedom of religious beliefs and freedom from discrimination.

True, but freedom of speech is actually considered even more important in the eyes of the US Court, and in general the rest of the free world.

Furthermore very few of these lawsuits are made in good faith. They're made because there are members of the LGTBQ who specifically wanna punish Christians for not celebrating them.

[rogue06]

How about some wedding favorites out of the Sunday Sweets over at cakewrecks?

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Plus literally everything in this Disney weddings post: http://www.cakewrecks.com/home/2016/...ing-cakes.html

Almost makes me wish I had a cake at my wedding. Almost.

A few more for Tass to shake his head at and "nope" at:

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[thewriteranon]

I'm sure those massive castle cakes cost a small fortune, but wow.

[rogue06]

I'm sure those massive castle cakes cost a small fortune, but wow.

But it isn't art