Originally posted by rogue06
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI've always found it interesting how some of the things that insurance never covered like Lasik surgery have been steadily and substantially dropping in price. When it started it was up around $1000/eye and now I see it advertised for between $200-300/eye.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostIt's different when you're paying with other peoples' money.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAnd the big problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.
Remember what happened when they did that "luxury tax" on yachts?
Within eight months after the change in the law took effect, Viking Yachts, the largest U.S. yacht manufacturer, laid off 1,140 of its 1,400 employees and closed one of its two manufacturing plants. Before it was all over, Viking Yachts was down to 68 employees. In the first year, one-third of U.S. yacht-building companies stopped production, and according to a report by the congressional Joint Economic Committee, the industry lost 7,600 jobs. When it was over, 25,000 workers had lost their jobs building yachts, and 75,000 more jobs were lost in companies that supplied yacht parts and material. Ocean Yachts trimmed its workforce from 350 to 50. Egg Harbor Yachts went from 200 employees to five and later filed for bankruptcy. The U.S., which had been a net exporter of yachts, became a net importer as U.S. companies closed. Jobs shifted to companies in Europe and the Bahamas. The U.S. Treasury collected zero revenue from the sales driven overseas.
People don't get rich by being stupid.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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The old fallacy that people won't change their behavior in response to government policy. My favorite example was when the state of New York raised taxes on the "rich" in order to close a hole in the budget, and so the following year, a critical mass of "rich" people moved, and the budget hole ended up even bigger than before.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Part of the problem is that healthcare is seen as a commodity, and a consumer driven market. It's something that instead of being viewed as a necessity (which it really is a necessity) In the US we have decided to capitalize on and make the most money out of possible. Fundamentally, that is wrong. Granted I get you need a job and you need to make money, But fundamentally the capitalization on diseases is not good.A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
George Bernard Shaw
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Originally posted by Catholicity View PostPart of the problem is that healthcare is seen as a commodity, and a consumer driven market. It's something that instead of being viewed as a necessity (which it really is a necessity) In the US we have decided to capitalize on and make the most money out of possible. Fundamentally, that is wrong. Granted I get you need a job and you need to make money, But fundamentally the capitalization on diseases is not good.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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The problem with me paying for somebody the healthcare of somebody else is that I have no control over their lifestyle choices.
If somebody knows they can overeat, drink, smoke, and other things detrimental to their health, it doesn't cost them any extra for the additional and advanced care they will need.
IF, on the other hand, they were paying for their own healthcare, they would at least have the option of making wiser choices.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostThe problem with me paying for somebody the healthcare of somebody else is that I have no control over their lifestyle choices.
If somebody knows they can overeat, drink, smoke, and other things detrimental to their health, it doesn't cost them any extra for the additional and advanced care they will need.
IF, on the other hand, they were paying for their own healthcare, they would at least have the option of making wiser choices.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThat has always been a major concern about government run health care -- that Big Brother will gain even more control over how you live.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by QuantaFille View PostHow about instead of figuring out who is going to pay these massive healthcare bills, we figure out how to make healthcare cost less so that poor people can afford it?Originally posted by QuantaFille View PostHow about instead of figuring out who is going to pay these massive healthcare bills, we figure out how to make healthcare cost less so that poor people can afford it?
However, I do believe healthcare insurance should be socialized. When I look at the countries that have done it, their satisfaction levels with their healthcare are way beyond ours, and their costs a fraction. It's a function of "buying in bulk." This is, I believe, the great disconnect with the argument about healthcare. It's not the healthcare that is being socialized - it's the insurance model. When a company becomes large enough, it realizes savings by purchasing a catastrophic coverage plan for a fraction of the cost it would pay for conventional premiums, and then self-insuring for the rest. If a company of 100 can realize those savings, imagine what we could save if we applied that model to 335M people. Since this is a country where the government is "of the people, by the people, and for the people," a single payer system is nothing more than the largest possible "self-insurance" program, with the profit motive removed.
What we have now is a mess. Before the ACA, my premiums climbed about 10% per year. Once the ACA was enacted, my premiums climbed an average of 8%. Since Trump took office, they have climbed over 20% per year and I just got notice it will happen again next year. Apparently, the uncertainty Trump created in the market, coupled with the provisions of the tax bill, are negatively impacting premiums. Of course, that's Vermont and Vermont is just one state. And it's BC/BS and BC/BS is just one provider. But it's gotten seriously ugly. I would be able to retire this year if it were not for the fact that I have to make over $25K per year just to cover premiums and the HSA contribution.
I could see my taxes increase by $20K and still be ahead of the game...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by seer View PostWell food is a necessity and that is seen as a commodity. You could live a lot longer without health care than food.A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
George Bernard Shaw
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostDepends on the poor person. Some cannot even afford to pay for food, shelter and clothing. Adding healthcare, at any cost, is simply a non-starter. We will always need safety nets for those truly in need.
However, I do believe healthcare insurance should be socialized. When I look at the countries that have done it, their satisfaction levels with their healthcare are way beyond ours, and their costs a fraction. It's a function of "buying in bulk." This is, I believe, the great disconnect with the argument about healthcare. It's not the healthcare that is being socialized - it's the insurance model. When a company becomes large enough, it realizes savings by purchasing a catastrophic coverage plan for a fraction of the cost it would pay for conventional premiums, and then self-insuring for the rest. If a company of 100 can realize those savings, imagine what we could save if we applied that model to 335M people. Since this is a country where the government is "of the people, by the people, and for the people," a single payer system is nothing more than the largest possible "self-insurance" program, with the profit motive removed.
What we have now is a mess. Before the ACA, my premiums climbed about 10% per year. Once the ACA was enacted, my premiums climbed an average of 8%. Since Trump took office, they have climbed over 20% per year and I just got notice it will happen again next year. Apparently, the uncertainty Trump created in the market, coupled with the provisions of the tax bill, are negatively impacting premiums. Of course, that's Vermont and Vermont is just one state. And it's BC/BS and BC/BS is just one provider. But it's gotten seriously ugly. I would be able to retire this year if it were not for the fact that I have to make over $25K per year just to cover premiums and the HSA contribution.
I could see my taxes increase by $20K and still be ahead of the game...
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostAt this point, after reading both sides for years now, I would support socialized medicine, IF it were done correctly and the level of service did not deteriorate (poor care, long waits, etc)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostBut how could it not deteriorate? With medical staff having to spend more and more of their time on paperwork - compliance and such - and the hopes of ever making enough money to offset their college debt.... who, in their right mind, would want to be a doctor?
Despite that they are paying some doctors NZ$400,0000 a year!
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