Voters Overwhelmingly Prefer Free Market to Socialism

[seer]

"Socialism" in the US is a pretty flexible term. In common US usage, Bernie Sanders is a democratic socialist who advocates the Nordic model of socialism, and medicare-for-all is "socialized medicine". If you want to shift to a tighter and very restricted definition of socialism, then Sanders isn't a socialist, the Nordic countries aren't socialist, Venezuela isn't socialist, and I'm probably not a socialist.

But I do get bored of you moving the goalposts by changing definitions every time you feel it convenient.

Star, how am I moving anything if socialism by definition requires the collective owning the means of production? BTW Venezuela was socialistic. The government as the representative of the people (collective) did take over the means of production by nationalizing private businesses. And that did not work out to well.

Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and workers' self-management of the means of production[10] as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.[11] Social ownership may refer to forms of public, collective or cooperative ownership, or to citizen ownership of equity.[12] There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[13] though social ownership is the common element shared by its various forms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

[Sparko]

A lot of Americans choose to use the words interchangeably, or to use 'socialist' to refer to more "tax and spend" Dems such as a Sanders or FDR.

According to the pol sci textbooks, a "tax and spend" person is a "social democrat". They cross the line into being a "democratic socialist" if and only if they poke at the structure of how businesses operate with regard to the balance of power between owners and workers (and/or the state). Strong unions is the most common way to do this in Western society - where workers together exercise sufficient power in their workplace to negotiate terms with the owner as equals. Another way can include employee share ownership schemes where employees are shareholders, or the German system where half the board of the company is appointed by the workers. A new method that is increasingly getting attention is cooperatives where the business itself is owned by the workers together, and I would personally say it appears to be the way of the future. One, largely discredited, historical way of changing up how businesses operate, was to have the government run literally all the businesses or close to it, which seems to be what seer thinks of when he thinks of "socialism" but that's just one possibility among many ways of changing how businesses operate, and it isn't one advocated by many socialists today.

So what's the difference between a socialist and a democrat?

[JimL]

Again Star, the Nordic model is NOT socialism, because socialism by definition requires the collective to own the means of productionhttp://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post562108

Your OP was about socialism as it exists in the U.S. seer, so we know what you meant by socialism, i.e. the democratic socialism as it is practiced here in this country. Stop moving the goal posts.

[seer]

Your OP was about socialism as it exists in the U.S. seer, so we know what you meant by socialism, i.e. the democratic socialism as it is practiced here in this country. Stop moving the goal posts.

No Jim, it was not about how socialism is in the U.S, that was in the article, this was the actual question:* ?

[JimL]

No Jim, it was not about how socialism is in the U.S, that was in the article, this was the actual question:* ?

So, according to Rasmussan, there is only 13% who supposedly prefer socialism in this country and your response to that is "good to see there is still some sanity left in this country." I guess I'm not following your point. So we favor a free market economic system to pure socialism by a wide margin. Is that a surprise to you or something? You been watching to much Fox News ranting about socialism?

[Sparko]

So, according to Rasmussan, there is only 13% who supposedly prefer socialism in this country and your response to that is "good to see there is still some sanity left in this country." I guess I'm not following your point. So we favor a free market economic system to pure socialism by a wide margin. Is that a surprise to you or something? You been watching to much Fox News ranting about socialism?

So what's the difference between a socialist and a democrat, Jim?

[JimL]

So what's the difference between a socialist and a democrat, Jim?

The fact that you ask tells me that you don't even know what socialism is. Go look up socialism and then you will be able to differentiate between the two.

[Cow Poke]

The fact that you ask tells me that you don't even know what socialism is.

Back to the childish games, I see.

Go look up socialism and then you will be able to differentiate between the two.

Translation - Jimmy has no clue.

[Sparko]

The fact that you ask tells me that you don't even know what socialism is. Go look up socialism and then you will be able to differentiate between the two.

So what's the difference between a socialist and a democrat, Jim?

[JimL]

Back to the childish games, I see.



Translation - Jimmy has no clue.

Actually I know the difference, CP. Do you?

[Cow Poke]

Actually I know the difference, CP. Do you?

Yeah, but I'm not gonna tell you. You'll have to look it up.

[Cow Poke]

So what's the difference between a socialist and a democrat, Jim?

[Mountain Man]

What neither seems to realize is that they inadvertently make the case not for socialism, but for economic freedom.

Which is what I said earlier, that they use the term "socialism" to describe successful, non-socialist forms of government and then try to claim that therefore socialism really works.

[shunyadragon]

So what's the difference between a socialist and a democrat, Jim?

A socialist{?} would a person who prefers a socialist economic system. A democrat supports the Democratic political party which does not support a socialist economic system.

[rogue06]

A socialist{?} would a person who prefers a socialist economic system. A democrat supports the Democratic political party which does not support a socialist economic system.

So why do you think that Democrats such as Debbie Wasserman Schultz, while Chair of the DNC, and Hillary Clinton not be able to express this distinction? Do they disagree?