Dem's New Slogan....

[Roy]

I was talking about securing voters and elections from possible fraud.

Voters/voting yes, but not entire elections.

[Sparko]

Voters/voting yes, but not entire elections.

What do you think these voters vote in? Where to eat lunch?

[carpedm9587]

How good would a picture of some-one at a few days old be for voter identification?

That was pretty much my point, Roy. The weakest link in any security/ID chain establishes the strength of the entire chain. The birth certificate is the weakest link. I have not seen a new birth certificate since 1999, but up until then, there was no identifying information. At least a fingerprint or foot prints would be helpful. But nothing. It is incredibly easy to get a birth certificate (or forge one) and get an ID.

[rogue06]

I feel like you're ignoring the entire big issue of Dog whistle politics...

Mighty funny how the left so easily picks up on those dog whistles that are meant for only racists to understand

[lilpixieofterror]

That was pretty much my point, Roy. The weakest link in any security/ID chain establishes the strength of the entire chain. The birth certificate is the weakest link. I have not seen a new birth certificate since 1999, but up until then, there was no identifying information. At least a fingerprint or foot prints would be helpful. But nothing. It is incredibly easy to get a birth certificate (or forge one) and get an ID.

[rogue06]

I had to get a copy of my birth certificate a couple years ago and it has a watermark and an embossed seal both of which are notoriously difficult to reproduce on a copy machine.

[lilpixieofterror]

I had to get a copy of my birth certificate a couple years ago and it has a watermark and an embossed seal both of which are notoriously difficult to reproduce on a copy machine.

[Roy]

Mighty funny how the left so easily picks up on those dog whistles that are meant for only racists to understand

While the right doesn't need to pick up on them?

[rogue06]

While the right doesn't need to pick up on them?

They have all those on the left telling them about them

The point is if they're only something that a racist can pick up on isn't it ironic how many on the left are so sensitively attuned to them?

[carpedm9587]

I have seen them. The point was not about the level of difficulty to forge one. The point was that the birth certificate itself does not provide adequate identification information to know that the person holding it is the person that the certificate actually represents. There is no identifying information other then eye color and hair color. There is no picture. No finger print. No footprint. At least not up through 1999. Not sure if they have changed since, but I have not been able to find anything that suggests they have.

[carpedm9587]

I had to get a copy of my birth certificate a couple years ago and it has a watermark and an embossed seal both of which are notoriously difficult to reproduce on a copy machine.

That was not the point of my post.

[Cow Poke]

While the right doesn't need to pick up on them?

I must be dogwhiistle tone deaf. But, then again, I'm colorblind, and in both ways.

[Cow Poke]

I have seen them. The point was not about the level of difficulty to forge one. The point was that the birth certificate itself does not provide adequate identification information to know that the person holding it is the person that the certificate actually represents. There is no identifying information other then eye color and hair color. There is no picture. No finger print. No footprint. At least not up through 1999. Not sure if they have changed since, but I have not been able to find anything that suggests they have.

Which is why, for example, our local DPS and SSA offices both required proof of residence in the form of a water bill or rental agreement or "something"... the birth certificate is not the sole basis for establishing identity. A reasonable attempt to verify identity.

[carpedm9587]

Which is why, for example, our local DPS and SSA offices both required proof of residence in the form of a water bill or rental agreement or "something"... the birth certificate is not the sole basis for establishing identity. A reasonable attempt to verify identity.

Those things prove residency - not identity. My point, CP, is that the entire identity structure is fractured - yet we have such hoopla about "picture ID" when it is ridiculously simple to get one that is not even accurate. My brother's 16-year-old son got one so he could drink! So what we have is an "urgent" need to fix a problem no one can show exists, with a solution that is riddled with holes, but demonstrably manages to significantly reduce voter participation. As you said earlier, the whole thing doesn't pass the "sniff" test.

(let me predict the response: if it's so easy to get a fake ID, why don't those "disenfranchised voters" do it?" Some do. Most do not. Elderly people are usually not into fake IDs. Many people have an ethical problem with it, not to mention the legal implications if they are caught. Teenagers may be impulsive. Most adults have a bit more knowledge of consequences. They are not willing to take an illegal means to achieve a right they should have anyway)

[Mountain Man]

That was pretty much my point, Roy. The weakest link in any security/ID chain establishes the strength of the entire chain. The birth certificate is the weakest link. I have not seen a new birth certificate since 1999, but up until then, there was no identifying information. At least a fingerprint or foot prints would be helpful. But nothing. It is incredibly easy to get a birth certificate (or forge one) and get an ID.

Oh, so now we've gone from "it's too hard to get a legitimate photo ID" to "it's too easy to get a false photo ID".