Dem's New Slogan....

[JimL]

He made a big speech about how we shouldn't be fighting among ourselves and seeing each other as enemies, then in the next breath called Trump a moron and his followers racist deplorables and when I called him on it, he argued that being divisive is good.

I don't see in those posts you cited where carpe acknowledged the fact that Trump is a moron or that his base constituency are deplorable racists.

[Sparko]

I don't see in those posts you cited where carpe acknowledged the fact that Trump is a moron or that his base constituency are deplorable racists.

Do you need everything spoonfed to you? do your own research.

[One Bad Pig]

He made a big speech about how we shouldn't be fighting among ourselves and seeing each other as enemies, then in the next breath called Trump a moron and his followers racist deplorables and when I called him on it, he argued that being divisive is good.

You got that backwards: He made a big speech in which he impugned Trump and his followers, then followed that up with a comment about how we shouldn't be fighting among ourselves.

[One Bad Pig]

I don't see in those posts you cited where carpe acknowledged the fact that Trump is a moron or that his base constituency are deplorable racists.

It would help if you actually clicked through to the cited posts, though Sparko could have quoted more of the first.

[Sparko]

You got that backwards: He made a big speech in which he impugned Trump and his followers, then followed that up with a comment about how we shouldn't be fighting among ourselves.

in that post, yes. Then he went on to comment about deplorables: "Anyone that is indeed "racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic" and so forth is indeed "deplorable" (IMO)...While it is true that most people who meet that description tended to vote for Trump..."

Doing exactly what he was previously arguing we should not be doing.

[carpedm9587]

So minorties are too stupid to get ID cards. Got it.

Not what I said - or thought.

[carpedm9587]

Biological derail:No, it's not. Mammals are defined by their mammary glands (hence the name 'mammal'), as well as by their hair and ear bones. There are multiple mammal species that lay eggs: echidnas and Ornithorhynchus.

So I find this definition: a warm-blooded vertebrate animal of a class that is distinguished by the possession of hair or fur, the secretion of milk by females for the nourishment of the young, and (typically) the birth of live young.

You are right that "typically" makes the statement less than absolute. I should have chosen "mammary glands" for my example.

[Sparko]

People have to have an ID card to even function in our society. Requiring one for voting should be a non-issue unless someone is trying to sneak illegal votes in. I have to show ID to vote in my state. In fact, I had to register to vote at the DMV where I got my driver's license, where I had to show proof of where I live before I got my driver's license.

[carpedm9587]

It's always nice to come up with a word to make NOT doing the right thing sound noble.

And I've stated I'm for that.

And, again, coming up with an obstacle to doing the right thing to make it seem more noble...

Not sure what "obstacle" you are referring to.

I think they know that's not a real issue with the left - that wouldn't fly, so why try?

Most (all?) of the people I know who lean left have no problem with VoterID laws, as long as they are not implemented in a way that will bar legitimate voters from voting.

So, Democrats can do all kinds of registration efforts, and even bus people to the polls - but they can't do the "help them get voter ID" thing? That's what convinces me that, for the Dems, it's not about "for the people" (what a stupid motto) it's "keeping my sorry butt in office no matter what".

Actually, the people I know on the left are actually doing exactly those things in many places. I cannot speak for all. But the "voterID" laws are progressing faster than they can help people who do not have IDs secure them. It takes a few minutes to bus someone. It can be from trivial to extremely difficult to secure IDs.

I've always been taught "do the right thing, and accept the consequences". Voter ID is the right thing, no matter how many obstacles you throw at it, or "noble excuses" up with which you come.

The "right" thing is to make sure that people who should be legitimately able to vote are not prevented from doing so, especially when the incidence of voter fraud is so minuscule. The issue is one of timing. So you set a future date (e.g., 1-2 years) by which time VoterIDs will be required, and then provide economic support for those who cannot pay for them, and then put the requirements in place. We have had minimal voterID requirements for most of our history, and minimal documented voter fraud for most of that history. A couple more years is not going to kill anyone. There is no justification for disenfranchising voters.

Next time, WARN US before you just up and disappear!

Understood. I actually had not planned to be 100% off my computer - but Hawaii was just too consuming for me to open my laptop even once.

[carpedm9587]

What's especially ironic/hypocritical are the number of things that require a photo ID, yet you never hear liberals decry airlines as racist for requiring a photo ID to board a plane, or to drive a car, or to visit a federal building, or to apply for government assistance, and so on. It's only voting that they have an issue with.

No one has a constitutional right/privilege/responsibility to fly a plane, drive a car, or anything of the other things you list. We DO have such for voting.

And I don't know where you live, but I don't need an ID to enter a federal building around here. I just need to go through the body scanner.

[carpedm9587]

You flip flop a lot, don't you?

Actually - no. I do change my mind when someone makes a compelling argument. Other than that - I pretty much stay the course. My sister is an extreme-right Republican. I lean left. We have a lot of political discussions and disagree about a lot of things. Sometimes even heatedly. Not once have I thought of her as "my enemy."

[carpedm9587]

That's a first!

Fell free to point to any post where I have not used the dictionary definition. I would consider that a bad post/argument.

[Mountain Man]

No one has a constitutional right/privilege/responsibility to fly a plane, drive a car, or anything of the other things you list. We DO have such for voting.

That doesn't explain why it's supposedly racist to require a photo ID to vote but not to board an airplane.

[seer]

The "right" thing is to make sure that people who should be legitimately able to vote are not prevented from doing so, especially when the incidence of voter fraud is so minuscule.

But we actually don't know that, in my state for instance you do not have to show a birth certificate to register to vote. You just have to check a box saying that you are a citizen. And according to my Registrar of Voters, no one (ever), follows up on this (and she has been doing this for 20 years). So how could we ever know?

[carpedm9587]

He made a big speech about how we shouldn't be fighting among ourselves and seeing each other as enemies, then in the next breath called Trump a moron and his followers racist deplorables and when I called him on it, he argued that being divisive is good.

No. I said we need to stop seeing one another as "enemies." I said nothing about not fighting among ourselves. You added that to my meaning. Even the FFs, as I previously noted, had strong debates about ideas. And they were often strongly in disagreement. I see no evidence that they ever thought about one another as "enemies." That, IMO, is what has changed in our country today. One does not compromise with enemies - one attempts to defeat them.

I also NEVER called Trump's supporters racist deplorables. This happens a lot in posts with you, Sparko. You need, I think, a basic course in logic. The sentences "Most (all?) racist deplorables voted for Trump" is not equivalent to "Anyone who voted for Trump is a racist deplorable." I said the first - and you are accusing me of the second. I never said it - or thought it, and was explicit about that in several posts.