Roe V Wade Is Doomed...

[Tassman]

That's akin to saying that someone on life support is not "viable" (because if you take them off the machines they'll die) and therefore we have the right to terminate their life if it becomes inconvenient for someone else.

The brain function is the person. When it goes (as per the person on a life support machine) you go and before it comes on, you are not here.

In any case the heartbeat at that stage (once again ultrasound is the bane of the pro-abortion movement^[1]) demonstrates that we're dealing with much more than a clump of tissue here as many in the pro-abortion side wanted you to believe. We are dealing with a human life. When a woman has an abortion after 6 to 7 weeks she is killing a human being.

No-one doubts that the embryo/fetus is alive at every stage of its development. That's not the argument. The argument is that until it develops into a viable entity that could with assistance survive outside the womb, it is not entitled to the rights and protections of the law. Until that point it is a part of the mother's body and the mother has rights too.

[Tassman]

The pro-choice lobby wants no restrictions of any kind on abortion. That is what they push for. They are just as irrational about abortion rights as the gun lobby is about gun rights. Neither will accept any rational limits on either. And many people are dying as a result of the irrational but vocal minority on both issues.

As to the heartbeat. This is a developing human being. Once there is a heartbeat, once there are brainwaves, this is now no longer just a mass of undifferentiated cells, this is a budding human being. And with each day that passes, this baby becomes more and more and more a baby. MOST women that suffer a miscarriage mourn the passing of their 10 week old 'fetus' with the same power and distress as a women that loses a child at birth, or at any time thereafter. This is built in. Your 'convenience is God' approach to abortion ignores millions of years of human evolution that causes most women to be capable of giving their lives to ensure the life of their unborn child. And it ignores our intrinsic moral nature that in most of us can't just rationalize away the choice to end an human life for 'convenience'

There are rational compromises that could be reached on this issue, just like there are rational compromises that could be reached on gun ownership.

But a bit part of the problem is the unwillingness to admit that 'sex is not just for fun' and that the reason marriage exists in the world is that people shouldn't be fiddling around with the power to create a human life like it was just another board game or a new edition of Mario Bro's.

[rogue06]

The brain function is the person. When it goes (as per the person on a life support machine) you go and before it comes on, you are not here.



No-one doubts that the embryo/fetus is alive at every stage of its development. That's not the argument. The argument is that until it develops into a viable entity that could with assistance survive outside the womb, it is not entitled to the rights and protections of the law. Until that point it is a part of the mother's body and the mother has rights too.

In that case since back in the mid-1950s and this has been confirmed multiple times since then. As Parents Magazine succinctly puts it in their series about the development of the baby at week 6 "brain waves can now be recorded."

Time for you to move the goalposts again.

[Teallaura]

FYI: 'viability' has nothing to do with it - he's confusing viability with personhood.

[Tassman]

FYI: 'viability' has nothing to do with it - he's confusing viability with personhood.

Personhood is defined by many to be at fetal viability, i.e.when the fetus develops a functioning brain near the end of the second trimester. It is the underlying assumption of the Roe v Wade Trimester system, namely. that a women has an absolute right to an abortion in the first three months of pregnancy, some government regulation in the second trimester of pregnancy (when the fetus becomes viable) and no right to an abortion during the third trimester ...except in very extraordinary circumstances.

[Tassman]

In that case since back in the mid-1950s and this has been confirmed multiple times since then. As Parents Magazine succinctly puts it in their series about the development of the baby at week 6 "brain waves can now be recorded."

Early neural activity consists of unorganised neuron firing of a primitive kind. Neuronal activity by itself does not represent integrated behaviour. Nor is it a viable entity, which is the basis of the argument.

[Sparko]

Early neural activity consists of unorganised neuron firing of a primitive kind. Neuronal activity by itself does not represent integrated behaviour. Nor is it a viable entity, which is the basis of the argument.

well gorsh, then Tassy, why not just kill an infant? Their brain can't think, or form concepts, or words, all it can do it feel and control bodily functions.

[One Bad Pig]

well gorsh, then Tassy, why not just kill an infant? Their brain can't think, or form concepts, or words, all it can do it feel and control bodily functions.

"Control" is being a bit generous for infants.

[JimL]

"Control" is being a bit generous for infants.

Even more so for a fetus!

[One Bad Pig]

Even more so for a fetus!

I appreciate you proving Sparko's point, Jim.

[JimL]

I appreciate you proving Sparko's point, Jim.

And I appreciate your confusion concerning proof. Had you understood it's meaning you'd have said instead that: "I appreciate your disagreement with Sparko's point, Jim."

[Cow Poke]

"Control" is being a bit generous for infants.

and old people

[One Bad Pig]

And I appreciate your confusion concerning proof. Had you understood it's meaning you'd have said instead that: "I appreciate your disagreement with Sparko's point, Jim."

Your usual inept attempt at put-down in lieu of saying something relevant is duly noted.

[JimL]

Your usual inept attempt at put-down in lieu of saying something relevant is duly noted.

You don't seem to be saying much about anything OBP except for following me around to tell me how inept I am. Duly noted.

[Tassman]

well gorsh, then Tassy, why not just kill an infant? Their brain can't think, or form concepts, or words, all it can do it feel and control bodily functions.

Your erroneous assumption seems to be that people want to go around killing infants and fetuses.