Separating immigrant families and imprisoning children

[demi-conservative]

So all the illegal immigrants pay taxes.

workers who get paid in cash could simply choose not to report it, unless they voluntarily file a return with an ITIN number. "

BUT, they're not eligible for any welfare benefits, like social security etc.

Idiot, not supposed to but they get it. Why so dumb???

[demi-conservative]

Lib, do you hear that?

No one cares! 'Racist' fails, also 'sexist', also other PC crap. Now desperate atheist you, desperate for high ground of morals, say 'you are not being real Christians!'

more, no one cares about fake righteousness of yours. Also, children separated from criminal parents everyday everywhere, you are shameless!

[Starlight]

workers who get paid in cash could simply choose not to report it, unless they voluntarily file a return with an ITIN number. "

US citizens can equally exploit exactly the same issue to avoid taxes, and some do. That's not an issue that relates to immigrants particularly.

[seer]

I'd suggest you re-read the Gospels a few times seer in terms of what our responsibilities are. (seems he told at least one fellow to go and sell EVERYTHING he had, give it to the poor, then come follow Him).

And again - this is a false dichotomy. We don't have to let everyone in that wants in in order not to turn a blind eye to those that truly need asylum. It is in fact ridiculous to suggest these are the only two alternatives. What Trump is doing is slamming the door shut, and what you guys arguing with me are doing is ignoring the cries for help of the truly needy in the attitude of your response. Neither you nor the pixie have yet to even once show the slightest compassion in your dialogue for the people I'm talking about. And there is not one thing keeping you from doing that while at the same time advocating for more secure borders. Heck - I'm FOR more secure borders. But not at the cost of sending a mother back to be burned alive by members of a drug cartel or gang when everyone involved KNEW that is exactly what would happen!


Jim

That is nonsense Jim, there would be literally millions and millions who could qualify for asylum, there are a slew of failed and dangerous states south of the border. And I actually interact with immigrants (legal and illegal) daily, they are the majority of my neighbors. But if I follow your logic there would be no end to the number of people we could potentially take in. And as far as I know Trump has not shut down the asylum program.

[oxmixmudd]

That is nonsense Jim, there would be literally millions and millions who could qualify for asylum, there are a slew of failed and dangerous states south of the border. And I actually interact with immigrants (legal and illegal) daily, they are the majority of my neighbors. But if I follow your logic there would be no end to the number of people we could potentially take in. And as far as I know Trump has not shut down the asylum program.

It is not nonsense. It happened.

Jim

[oxmixmudd]

It is not nonsense. It happened.

Jim

Eta just so we're clear: I'm not against a secure border I'm for it. I'm against Trump's method of obtaining a secure border. You are continuing to foster the false dichotomy that this is the only way to have a secure border and that the only other option is an insecure border.

[seer]

Eta just so we're clear: I'm not against a secure border I'm for it. I'm against Trump's method of obtaining a secure border. You are continuing to foster the false dichotomy that this is the only way to have a secure border and that the only other option is an insecure border.

Well we haven't really secured the border in at least forty years, time to try something new. But I still don't see where Trump has shut down the asylum program.

[Cow Poke]

US citizens can equally exploit exactly the same issue to avoid taxes, and some do. That's not an issue that relates to immigrants particularly.

Well, you can't totally avoid taxes unless you don't buy anything.

[oxmixmudd]

Well we haven't really secured the border in at least forty years, time to try something new. But I still don't see where Trump has shut down the asylum program.

So because we've had an insecure border in the past that justifies what is happening now? And you are willing to do anything as long as it is 'something new'?

Are you really that callous to the lives affected by Trump's brain dead approach to solving the problem?

As for the asylum issue: you are being too literal seer. He has made it nearly impossible to gain asylum - which for all practical purposes has shut it down. And he has removed seeking safety from gangs/cartels as a valid reason to request asylum. Which is what caused the specific person I mentioned to be turned back and subsequently assassinated by her husband and associates.

Can you imagine being a person that has to send a woman with little children back to certain death because of an arbitrary government border policy? But I guess that's ok, because 'at least it is something new'.

Jim

[seer]

So because we've had an insecure border in the past that justifies what is happening now? And you are willing to do anything as long as it is 'something new'?

Are you really that callous to the lives affected by Trump's brain dead approach to solving the problem?

As for the asylum issue: you are being too literal seer. He has made it nearly impossible to gain asylum - which for all practical purposes has shut it down. And he has removed seeking safety from gangs/cartels as a valid reason to request asylum. Which is what caused the specific person I mentioned to be turned back and subsequently assassinated by her husband and associates.

Can you imagine being a person that has to send a woman with little children back to certain death because of an arbitrary government border policy? But I guess that's ok, because 'at least it is something new'.

Jim

I don't know about individual cases Jim, but it looks like asylum denial rates are about where they were in the early 2000, they were less under Obama. Denial rates were actually higher under Clinton.

http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/491/

figure1_large.jpg

[demi-conservative]

US citizens can equally exploit exactly the same issue to avoid taxes, and some do. That's not an issue that relates to immigrants particularly.

Stupid dodge! Point is lots of illegals pay zero tax, but are yuge drain of economy.

[oxmixmudd]

I don't know about individual cases Jim, but it looks like asylum denial rates are about where they were in the early 2000, they were less under Obama. Denial rates were actually higher under Clinton.

http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/491/

[ATTACH=CONFIG]28803[/ATTACH]

That chart would not include the changes that have sparked this debate. I guess we'll have to see what it looks like for 2018.

It does show a very sharp increase in denial rates under Trump without a corresponding increase in applications, but you are right that denial rates were much higher under Clinton and in fact most of the reduction in denial rates came under Bush II

That would be contrary to the mantra that the loose borders are a liberal agenda problem. From what I understand, the loose Southern border has a lot to do with a desire for cheap manual labor by business, which would be consistent with loosening of the border under a GOP president.


Jim

[seer]

That chart would not include the changes that have sparked this debate. I guess we'll have to see what it looks like for 2018.

Jim

As far as actual denials I see no reason to think they are higher now, than in the first year of Trump. Though he maybe handing it differently now. The separation thing does not give us those numbers.

[oxmixmudd]

As far as actual denials I see no reason to think they are higher now, than in the first year of Trump. Though he maybe handing it differently now. The separation thing does not give us those numbers.

I made some adjustments, so take another look.

There are two reasons two expect an increase seer: "zero tolerance" and the removal of gang/cartels from the list of approvable appeals for asylum. But we'll have to wait for actual numbers. I may look into what we know now a little more deeply later. If I find anything I'll post it in this thread.

Jim

[Charles]

Sorry Jim, I don't agree, we have limited resources, we simply can't take in all those who could possibly qualify. Half the third world would flow in. My priority is for my fellow countryman. And there is nothing explicit in the teachings of Jesus that says otherwise.

I wonder what Bible you are reading.