Originally posted by Tassman
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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!You only convey your ignorance of the specifics of this shop's buisiness, the arts, and your own lack of empathy for those with deep religious faith when you make statements like this.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 06-28-2018, 06:44 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post!You only convey your ignorance of the specifics of this shop's buisiness, the arts, and your own lack of empathy for anyone not like you when you make statements like this.
JimAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View Post... And, as for the violation of constitutional protections at Californian crisis pregnancy centres what about the constitutional protection of women legally wanting abortions?
Again - there are two issues. (1) What a person can legally do, (2) What a person is legally required to do to support, aid, inform another person about what is available when what is available is a violation of their conscience.
You give no place to belief or conscience in those whose beliefs or conscience is not your own. Which is in reality quite intolerant and disrespectful of you.
The reality is, a religious organization or institution is not required to inform others as to what resources exist which will enable them to commit what they regard as sin. In fact, an organization such as a religiously run pregnancy life care exists for the sole purpose of helping a young girl in a difficult situation carry a baby to term so the baby lives and is not killed. So the mother does not have to deal with the guilt of having killed their baby, so the young mother feels she has an alternative to killing the baby. To require them to hand out information on how to kill the unborn baby is insane. That is 100% contrary to their purpose, conscience and beliefs.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by JimL View PostI think that's a nonsensical argument Tea, a loophole you might say. Sometimes we have to use common sense, everything isn't spelled out for us in law, that's why we have the courts.
This constitutional form is why we even discuss what is or is not constitutional - because the Constitution is the final arbiter of what is and is not legal in the US.
Courts and the Court do get it wrong - see Plessy v Ferguson, Dred Scott, and a host of other really STUPID decisions that have later been overturned.
Er, I'm gonna leave that up there but it occurs to me you might have been arguing about access v treatment. If so, you're just mistaken - that one's already been in the courts for ages and the courts do make the distinction between access and treatment as I described. Equality of access is what is guaranteed by the CRA, not equality of treatment. It's not mere semantics - there is a definite difference. The point is having access to service - not having to get exactly the same service."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by JimL View PostNo I don't agree, I think that's ridiculous. Opposing gay marriage does not define a person, so the gay baker would not be discriminating against the person, he would be refusing to engage in that persons hate speech against gay persons."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
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Originally posted by JimL View PostAs far as I recall the SC ruled that Colorado acted with bias in its ruling against the baker, they never really ruled on the case itself. So, I don't know where you are getting the idea that Colorado was allowing gay bakers to discriminate, or that that had anything to do with the SC ruling.
FYI: If the Court found the way you are arguing, Jewish bakers couldn't deny swastika cupcakes to skinheads either. NO creed or protected class (race, gender et al) would be able to refuse service on the grounds of conscience or sensibility. That's not just me - that's how most of the decision and concurrences read."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
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Just an FYI since the case was mentioned. Abortion clinics are legally required to provide information about alternatives (adoption, keeping the child, resources) whereas the Court found that California could not make the same requirement of crisis pregnancy centers. At first glance, it appears a double standard - which was what California argued. BUT there's a huge difference - a client walks out of a crisis pregnancy centers with the full ability to change her mind; an abortion is permanent and cannot be undone. The issue with abortion centers is INFORMED CONSENT to a medical procedure - that issue is not present at all with a crisis pregnancy center since delivery does not occur onsite."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostJust an FYI since the case was mentioned. Abortion clinics are legally required to provide information about alternatives (adoption, keeping the child, resources) whereas the Court found that California could not make the same requirement of crisis pregnancy centers. At first glance, it appears a double standard - which was what California argued. BUT there's a huge difference - a client walks out of a crisis pregnancy centers with the full ability to change her mind; an abortion is permanent and cannot be undone. The issue with abortion centers is INFORMED CONSENT to a medical procedure - that issue is not present at all with a crisis pregnancy center since delivery does not occur onsite.Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.
Beige Federalist.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostDidn't mean to leave off the second half.
Again - there are two issues. (1) What a person can legally do, (2) What a person is legally required to do to support, aid, inform another person about what is available when what is available is a violation of their conscience.
You give no place to belief or conscience in those whose beliefs or conscience is not your own. Which is in reality quite intolerant and disrespectful of you.
The reality is, a religious organization or institution is not required to inform others as to what resources exist which will enable them to commit what they regard as sin.
In fact, an organization such as a religiously run pregnancy life care exists for the sole purpose of helping a young girl in a difficult situation carry a baby to term so the baby lives and is not killed. So the mother does not have to deal with the guilt of having killed their baby, so the young mother feels she has an alternative to killing the baby. To require them to hand out information on how to kill the unborn baby is insane. That is 100% contrary to their purpose, conscience and beliefs
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Originally posted by Tassman View Postbut you are doing precisely that.
Nonsense! As usual you are claiming special privileges for the beliefs and rights of Evangelicals, whilst completely disregarding the beliefs and rights of those who disagree with you. The demonstrable fact is that many (in fact the majority) think differently to you in good conscience and, warrant non-judgemental assistance.
"The government shall make no low RESTRICTING the free exercise thereof".
If you force someone to do something AGAINST their religious beliefs, you are RESTRICTING the free exercise thereof. Therefore any law that FORCES a person to violate their religious beliefs is RESTRICTING the free exercise thereof. You and those like you regard that as an unnecessary burden, but only because you simply do not comprehend what our constitution says, what it demands in terms of creating an environment where people are free to live according to any religion that chose to follow. That same freedom is what allows you to be an atheist with no repercussions, but because of your lack of comprehension of the responsibility that freedom requires of you, you are willing to demand that same freedom not be extended to those who do not hold your particular persuasion.
The constitution literally demands that no such law even be created (shall make no law ...). However, one common way or relaxing that is to create the law, but then grant the EXCEPTION for those whose free EXERCISE of religion is violated by it. These 'special privileges' as you call them are therefore a REQUIREMENT of the constitution. However, you could avoid the problem altogether if you and people like you would stop making laws that by their very nature create a constitutional demand for an exception for people of religious faith!Last edited by oxmixmudd; 06-29-2018, 07:29 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by NorrinRadd View PostAbout the "double-standard" aspect -- If "abortion clinics" were opposed to providing info about alternatives, it would show that that side is really not about "choice," but only about aborting. If that is not the case -- if they really are about "choice" -- it is not a double standard, because it is a comparison of apples and oranges; one side is (supposedly) about "choosing," while the other is strictly about preserving life."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Tassman View Postbut you are doing precisely that.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by TassNonsense! As usual you are claiming special privileges for the beliefs and rights of Evangelicals, whilst completely disregarding the beliefs and rights of those who disagree with you. The demonstrable fact is that many (in fact the majority) think differently to you in good conscience and, warrant non-judgemental assistance.
Why force those who disagree with those things to change for the sake of cultural expediency?
Of course I know your answer. "Because! Their rights supercede the rights of Christians in every area!"
Pure bull poop.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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