Originally posted by rogue06
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Ireland legalizes the killing of the unborn
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Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostI see what you did there.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNot really. I'm just highlighting flaws in MM's anti-abortion argument and his knowledge of basic biology. Have you fallen for MM and LPOT's other falsehoods, that I'm a rabid pro-choicer (I'm not) or that I've claimed hair and skin cells are organisms (I haven't)?
PS: thanks, but I do admit when I'm wrong.Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostDepending on who you are, a pun can be "good" or bad.
pun not intended...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Roy View PostNot really. I'm just highlighting flaws in MM's anti-abortion argument and his knowledge of basic biology. Have you fallen for MM and LPOT's other falsehoods, that I'm a rabid pro-choicer (I'm not) or that I've claimed hair and skin cells are organisms (I haven't)?
PS: thanks, but I do admit when I'm wrong."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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So let's revisit this in light of some of the subsequent claims made by Ignorant Roy; here is my argument as originally presented:
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAt the moment of conception, the resulting organism:
1) Meets even the most conservative scientific definition of life.
2) Has human DNA.
3) Is guilty of no legal or moral wrong.
Therefore, abortion kills an innocent human life.
Q.E.D.
Of course we can't overlook the hilarious fact that you explicitly referred to spermatozoa as "organisms", and that Dimbulb, who boasts about his science degree, made a similar argument regarding skin cells.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostSo let's revisit this in light of some of the subsequent claims made by Ignorant Roy; here is my argument as originally presented:
Tell me, Ignorant Roy, at what point did I move the goalposts like you claimed?
Of course we can't overlook the hilarious fact that you explicitly referred to spermatozoa as "organisms", and that Dimbulb, who boasts about his science degree, made a similar argument regarding skin cells.
1) Meet even the most conservative scientific definition of "life"
2) Have human DNA
3) Are guilty of no legal or moral wrong
Therefore, flushing these stem cells down the toilet is killing an innocent human life...
Q.E.D.
Don't get me wrong - I think aborting an implanted fetus is indeed ending an innocent human life. I just don't think your argument gets you where you want it to get you.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAt the moment of conception, the resulting organism:
1) Meets even the most conservative scientific definition of life.
2) Has human DNA.
3) Is guilty of no legal or moral wrong.
Therefore, abortion kills an innocent human life.
Q.E.D.It is simply wrong to describe a fertilised ovum as a human being. A fertilised ovum is not a human being, it is a biological reaction. It has no head, no heart, no spine, and no consciousness. It is a collection of biological elements which is no more a human being than my leg, my arm, any of my organs, even my toe nails.
It may someday become a human being, but it is not a human being.
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSo let's take the case of a culture of human stem cells (let's use induced pluripotent stem cells in a nourishing culture). These:
1) Meet even the most conservative scientific definition of "life"
2) Have human DNA
3) Are guilty of no legal or moral wrong
Therefore, flushing these stem cells down the toilet is killing an innocent human life...
Q.E.D.
Don't get me wrong - I think aborting an implanted fetus is indeed ending an innocent human life. I just don't think your argument gets you where you want it to get you.
I expect this kind of nonsense from Dimbulb and Ignorant Roy, but not you.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostSeriously, carpe? Stem cells are not organisms, nor can they be said to even loosely qualify as life-forms.
I expect this kind of nonsense from Dimbulb and Ignorant Roy, but not you.
If you are changing or clarifying your argument, you are certainly free to do so. I'll try not to use the "moving the goal posts" line that so often gets used when I clarify my arguments.Last edited by carpedm9587; 06-03-2018, 06:37 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostPlease show me where I have ever said or implied that abortion was done "on a whim".
It's you sick 'lot' who equate it with "swatting a fly".
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostOf course we can't overlook the hilarious fact that you explicitly referred to spermatozoa as "organisms", and that Dimbulb, who boasts about his science degree, made a similar argument regarding skin cells.Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostStem cells are not organisms, nor can they be said to even loosely qualify as life-forms.
Try and get this idea from basic biology into your head: Cells are alive. They metabolize, reproduce, respond to their environment etc. "Alive". "Organism". Whatever you want to call it. Cells are the basic unit of life. Stop repeating your ignorant idiocies that they are not life.
Frankly, I still do not understand why you, a person ignorant on so many different issues, and who I think it's safe to assume never attended any university or opened any university textbook, feel bold enough to try to lecture scientists on things from YEC to climate change to cell biology, and you manage to put forth the silliest positions on all those issues. Get a grip."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostSo you recognise that the fetus is clearly regarded by most people and most societies as something special that should not be casually discarded.
Ah, so those who are pro-choice are a "sick lot"; that's the judgemental approach we've come to expect from Evangelicals. As for "swatting a fly", I think the reference was to the equal lack of cognition between a fly and an insensate embryo in the first trimester, which is when virtually all abortions are performed.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostJust to be clear, "virtually all" is about 90%. About 1.3% happen after the 21st week. Since the human gestation period is 9 months (40 weeks, 280 days), and the first trimester is about 13 weeks, that suggests that 8.7% of abortions happen between 13 and 21 weeks.Last edited by Tassman; 06-04-2018, 12:42 AM.
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