Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Ireland legalizes the killing of the unborn
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Originally posted by Chuckles View PostAnd now you go for a personal attack. I could not ask for anything better to prove that you want to avoid discussing the substance.
But do keep dancing.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostRegardless of any debate, you are still not going to find a source that declares every single cell in the human body is an organism in and of itself.
I've ALREADY quoted you one, you knucklehead, multiple times at this point.
Biology for Dummies:
"the cell is the smallest part of the organism that retains characteristics of the entire organism. For example, a cell can take in fuel, convert it to energy, and eliminate wastes, just like the organism as a whole can... Therefore, cells not only make up living things; they are living things."
Individual cells are organisms. Combined together they make up other organisms."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
I've ALREADY quoted you one, you knucklehead, multiple times at this point.
Biology for Dummies:
"the cell is the smallest part of the organism that retains characteristics of the entire organism. For example, a cell can take in fuel, convert it to energy, and eliminate wastes, just like the organism as a whole can... Therefore, cells not only make up living things; they are living things."
Individual cells are organisms. Combined together they make up other organisms.
Anyway, I've quoted this previously, but it apparently needs to be repeated.
While cells extracted from a multicellular organism like a plant or a person may be able to be cultured in vitro for a time, they cannot survive independently - they require the intervention of humans (or very well-trained monkeys) to obtain nutrients and oxygen, and process/remove waste. A unicellular organism like a bacterium, for example, can handle these functions on its own - it can either synthesize or find a source for its own nutrients, and can reproduce on its own to create more organisms.
The key difference is being self-sustaining. An organism needs to be able to feed itself, take care of its waste, reproduce a full version of itself, respond to stimuli, etc. (see the "properties of life" link above). A single cell from a multicellular organism cannot do all that without assistance (kind of like a virus, actually), while a true unicellular organism can.
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This answer is saying that certain cells are alive and not organisms. The criteria specified in this answer are "stable" and "alive"; those cells meet the second criteria but not the first. Based on your comment, you appear to be assuming all cells have the same capabilities - but they do not.
https://biology.stackexchange.com/qu...ells-organisms
We're just going in circles now, so it's time I stepped off the merry-go-round.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
Things like "rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity" are extreme cases.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostNo, you are all of you as a whole. Your body and mind. You can't exist without either one. As a materialist, you should actually value the material body more than the ephemeral mind, which as you say is just a pattern in the brain. Software.
If your brain generates your mind, then it is what is really "you" and if your body generates your brain when you are a fetus, then that is still you. YOU are not just Tassman at this moment in time. You are Tassman who exists as a being in time and space. You occupy space and time. The life time you occupy is from the time you were conceived until you die. Break that chain at any point and you are ended at that spot. You as a fetus was just as much you as you are today, or will be laying on your deathbed.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostCertainly, but "carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental and physical health of the mother" allows for the possibility of much less extreme interpretation, given the vagueness of the language.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostSo in this case, you're a bit like a 4th grader stamping his foot and telling me with authority that ...Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThis was well before that was used as a loophole to allow abortion on demand. Hindsight is almost always 20/20.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonat...b_2072716.html
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Originally posted by Ignorant Roy View Post... skin cells don't grow, metabolise or respond to stimuli.
Funny how you can get it without actually getting it.Last edited by Mountain Man; 06-06-2018, 06:25 AM.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostSeparate them from the host organism, and those functions will cease. A skin cell left on its own, even in an otherwise hospitable environment, will inevitably die.Last edited by Roy; 06-06-2018, 06:41 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by ignorant Roy View Post... as will a fertilised human ovum.
Please don't tell me you're reaching for the "humans will die in a vacuum, so they don't qualify as organisms" canard. That seems to be a favorite of scientifically illiterate pro-abortionists.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostSeparate them from the host organism, and those functions will cease. A skin cell left on its own, even in an otherwise hospitable environment, will inevitably die.fend for itselfself-sustain.
It depends on the mother only in the sense that you and I depend on oxygen to survive.Last edited by Roy; 06-06-2018, 09:45 AM.Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Ignorant Roy View PostSo fertilised human ova can survive without the mother in the same sense that we can survive without oxygen - i.e. not at all. And MM thinks this is a coherent argument for why ova do not need to be retained by the host organism????Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostNevertheless, the virtual prohibition of abortion by the Evangelicals today is a relatively recent phenomenon. "In the late 1960s and early 1970s, evangelical Christians widely believed the Bible says life begins at birth and supported looser abortion policies"...as the 1971 SBC Resolution indicates.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jonat...b_2072716.html
And even you should realize that if the SBC resolution "supported looser abortion policies" then that means prior to that they didn't support it which blows an ocean liner-size hole through this fantasy that it is only in the past few decades that they support tightening the restrictions.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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