Originally posted by rogue06
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MS13 - Animals?
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostOtherwise I'll write this off as yet another utter delusion on your part.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAs much as it sounds like a cliche', they appear to hate Trump more than they love America.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAnd I'm not convinced they love America.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostCan you cite any examples of anyone "happily and vigorously defend[ing] MS13"? I haven't any defense of them in any of the various liberal media I consume daily. I googled for right-wing articles listing the egregious leftist defenses of MS-13 and, I kid you not, here are the stunning and vigorous 'defenses' of MS-13 they cite:
"however repugnant their actions, MS-13 gang members are human beings" - John Harwood (CNBC)
What robust defenses of MS-13! Such praise! Extolling their virtues, no end!
Seriously, can you either explain how any of that is actually a 'defense' of MS-13, or how it is 'a happy and vigorous one', or actually find me some quotes actually defending MS-13 by these liberals you think are out there somewhere defending MS-13?
Otherwise I'll write this off as yet another utter delusion on your part.Last edited by rogue06; 05-22-2018, 07:52 AM.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostMuch like how many in the MSM deliberately excluded what Sheriff Mims said, and to which Trump was directly responded to which showed he was talking about MS-13, starlight is snipping out pertinent parts, such as where Pelosi whined about needing to "respect the dignity and worth" of these butchers or where Feinstein droned on about how they "are our family and friends and they make significant contributions to our country."
I'll gladly dial that back to "dutifully and dishonorably defend[ing] MS13".The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostBased on crime statistics, those who have no respect for our immigration laws are less likely to respect our laws in general.
http://www.breitbart.com/texas/2018/...-came-legally/
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...ans-study.html
https://www.americanthinker.com/arti...tizens_do.html
Your second link, in stark contrast to your first link, makes the case that illegal immigrants are committing more crimes than the average native-born US citizen, in Arizona at least. However, the group doing the study in this link are pretty suspect in terms of credibility, so without looking into the details of the study, I would tend to suspect that the findings in the first link are much more trustworthy than the second link.
The third link seems to be a back-of-the-envelope, guessing at numbers, some guy spit-balling on a blog. I don't see any reason to take it seriously at all.
So your own links overall make me think that illegal immigrants probably commit less crime than the average US citizen. And that's not even counting the fact that if you just do a simple google on the subject and look at all the hits on reputable sources that will show up (rather than scraping the barrel for extreme sources as you have), they are study after study finding that immigrants commit much less crime than natives."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostYour first link shows data from Texas that says that illegal immigrants commit much less crime than the average native-born US citizen...
Having been a "facilities guy" for a gas compression company, with many gas wells across southern Texas, I found on a weekly basis that our field offices had been broken into, property destroyed, and things stolen from illegals coming across the border.
A good humanitarian would say "they weren't committing a crime, they were just needing water and food". But breaking into somebody else's property and stealing things is still a crime. Would we ever catch, charge and prosecute these people? Fat chance.
So, while some of these people have, indeed, committed additional crimes (besides the initial crime of entering the country illegally), there will be no documentation to add to any study to show the actual numbers.
While I would not deny them food or water, that's no excuse for vandalizing property and stealing computers and other equipment.
One of the biggest problems with "crime statistics" is that only those who get caught are "in the report".
And most people who are here illegally will purposely NOT commit crimes where they might get caught and deported. So the idea that they "commit less crime" is based on the assumption that they're not committing crimes for which they will not be arrested and charged.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View Poststarlight has snipped out pertinent parts, such as where Feinstein droned on about how they "are our family and friends and they make significant contributions to our country" or simply cherry-picked the least dubious of the remarks floating around. I mean who cares what some singer said?
Daily Caller:
Singer John Legend may have gone the furthest in his MS-13 defense.
The Federalist:
(That's all they say on Feinstein. The Daily Caller article doesn't mention her at all.) Obviously Feinstein is talking about immigrants in general, as she says in her tweet. The article itself has decided that since they believe Trump was talking about MS-13 only and that since Feinstein is talking about Trump's comment, that therefore she must believe Trump was talking about MS-13 only (which she clearly doesn't) and that therefore she must be referring to MS-13 only (which she clearly isn't), and that therefore her statement that "Immigrants are our family and friends" must be about MS-13. Their interpretation effectively means they think Feinstein is claiming to have family and friends in MS-13! Apparently that wasn't enough to help them realize they'd gone wrong in their interpretation of her words...
If those right-wing sources did a poor job on the story, well, I agree (But, then, I think they're a joke on all stories and issues), mostly because I don't think it is a story, since zero liberals are defending MS-13 or saying anything nice about MS-13 whatsoever. But it was those right-wing outlets, not me, who picked which liberal 'defenses' of MS-13 to cite. I didn't go snipping out the good parts.Last edited by Starlight; 05-22-2018, 08:13 AM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostHaving been a "facilities guy" for a gas compression company, with many gas wells across southern Texas, I found on a weekly basis that our field offices had been broken into, property destroyed, and things stolen from illegals coming across the border.
Would we ever catch, charge and prosecute these people? Fat chance...
One of the biggest problems with "crime statistics" is that only those who get caught are "in the report".
And most people who are here illegally will purposely NOT commit crimes where they might get caught and deported.
Somewhat interestingly though, illegals do seem to commit more crimes than legals (who are presumably also being on their best behavior to avoid deportation)."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Dimbulb View PostYour first link shows data from Texas that says that illegal immigrants commit much less crime than the average native-born US citizen, and that legal immigrants are even better.
Your second link, in stark contrast to your first link, makes the case that illegal immigrants are committing more crimes than the average native-born US citizen, in Arizona at least. However, the group doing the study in this link are pretty suspect in terms of credibility, so without looking into the details of the study, I would tend to suspect that the findings in the first link are much more trustworthy than the second link.
The third link seems to be a back-of-the-envelope, guessing at numbers, some guy spit-balling on a blog. I don't see any reason to take it seriously at all.
So your own links overall make me think that illegal immigrants probably commit less crime than the average US citizen. And that's not even counting the fact that if you just do a simple google on the subject and look at all the hits on reputable sources that will show up (rather than scraping the barrel for extreme sources as you have), they are study after study finding that immigrants commit much less crime than natives.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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If not a single Democrat could bring themselves to stand for victims of MS-13 violence during Trump's State of the Union because of an all-consuming hatred for Trump, it should come as no surprise that they have rallied in the defense of MS-13 to help shield them from that nasty old Trump calling these little angels (who posses a "dignity that demands respect" and "are our family and friends and they make significant contributions to our country") "animals."
In a sane world Trump would be criticized not for calling MS-13 "animals" but for insulting animals by likening MS-13 to them.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI think when most people think of illegals committing crimes (especially violent crimes) they are thinking of the crimes that illegals supposedly commit in their communities once they settle into them. They are not thinking of the border crossing itself (and any associated thefts of necessary supplies) as the crime. Rather, they are saying they don't want illegals to settle into their community because they believe they will commit crime once they get there.
The data in the links is based on actual arrests or imprisonments. So, yeah, if they can't be caught they aren't being counted in this instance.
Yes. To me that seems obvious. But Trump, and MM don't seem to understand that.
Somewhat interestingly though, illegals do seem to commit more crimes than legals (who are presumably also being on their best behavior to avoid deportation).The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd most people who are here illegally will purposely NOT commit crimes where they might get caught and deported.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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