Same Sex Marriages and Sexual Orientation

[carpedm9587]

It's bigotry.

What is?

[mossrose]

What is?

A doctor or nurse who refuses to do abortions who is let go because of that choice is being discriminated against. There are many abortion clinics here, paid for by my tax dollars btw, and a woman seeking an abortion can go to one of those and no one is forcing the staff there to perform a job they find distasteful. The doctors and nurses who choose not to perform that service at a hospital (where, my friend says, there are plenty of other nurses and doctors willing to perform that service) should be allowed to do other work in that facility.

A homosexual couple who wants a cake for their wedding can go to any number of bakeries that are willing to provide that service, instead of actively seeking out a Christian bakery are showing bigotry against the Christian baker.

[demi-conservative]

Anyone can engage here, but the basic rule of the thread is "be civil." No name calling. No mocking emojis. Make your points with civility. That doesn't mean we cannot be passionate, and it doesn't mean we cannot be blunt. It just means we need to be adult.

Deep breath

Carped, lots of businesses discriminate on customers. Positively, also negatively, on clothes, face, whether loyal customer, same race, same community, same faith, gut feeling.

[carpedm9587]

A doctor or nurse who refuses to do abortions who is let go because of that choice is being discriminated against. There are many abortion clinics here, paid for by my tax dollars btw, and a woman seeking an abortion can go to one of those and no one is forcing the staff there to perform a job they find distasteful. The doctors and nurses who choose not to perform that service at a hospital (where, my friend says, there are plenty of other nurses and doctors willing to perform that service) should be allowed to do other work in that facility.

A homosexual couple who wants a cake for their wedding can go to any number of bakeries that are willing to provide that service, instead of actively seeking out a Christian bakery are showing bigotry against the Christian baker.

I don't see "bigotry" or "prejudice" here. I see a business making a business decision. If they can schedule around the limitations, they are certainly free to. However, once you begin accommodating everyone's "I won't do that" for whatever reason they might have, the logistics can get ugly. Personally, I would hire people willing to do the work, and invite others to go find work elsewhere.

I have no idea of the couple "actively sought out a Christian bakery" or not. Hopefully not. But if the bakery offers wedding cakes, sooner or later a gay couple is probably going to walk in the door.

[carpedm9587]

Deep breath

Carped, lots of businesses discriminate on customers. Positively, also negatively, on clothes, face, whether loyal customer, same race, same community, same faith, gut feeling.

First - nicely done, Demi! This is a well articulated and civil post!

I've responded to this already in other posts, so I'll let those stand.

[demi-conservative]

First - nicely done, Demi! This is a well articulated and civil post!

I've responded to this already in other posts, so I'll let those stand.

Demi doesn't see anything beyond 'laws say so'. Laws will change!

[oxmixmudd]

I don't see "bigotry" or "prejudice" here. I see a business making a business decision. If they can schedule around the limitations, they are certainly free to. However, once you begin accommodating everyone's "I won't do that" for whatever reason they might have, the logistics can get ugly. Personally, I would hire people willing to do the work, and invite others to go find work elsewhere.

I have no idea of the couple "actively sought out a Christian bakery" or not. Hopefully not. But if the bakery offers wedding cakes, sooner or later a gay couple is probably going to walk in the door.

I would venture to guess that for the majority of successful wedding cake establishments when they went into the business the probability of a gay couple coming in and asking for a wedding cake for themselves was fairly close to 0.

I really love all the compassion for the people in those businesses that are faced with this issue. It is amazing to see. Do it my way or the highway. Oh you have kids - tough. Oh you've trained and worked for years to develop these skills - tough. Either change your religion, your morals, or get a new job.




Jim

[carpedm9587]

I would venture to guess that for the majority of successful wedding cake establishments when they went into the business the probability of a gay couple coming in and asking for a wedding cake for themselves was fairly close to 0.

I really love all the compassion for the people in those businesses that are faced with this issue. It is amazing to see. Do it my way or the highway. Oh you have kids - tough. Oh you've trained and worked for years to develop these skills - tough. Either change your religion, your morals, or get a new job.

Jim

At no point did I say it was going to be easy, Jim, nor did I mean to dismiss the difficulty for some people. However, it is hard for me to believe that a bakery has to close if they stop making one thing. If they can make wedding cakes, they can make other cakes as well.

But even if it means the business has to close, you cannot justify maintaining an immoral (and possibly illegal) position on the basis of "it would be hard." Staying true to our moral code often places significant challenges. We've all been there in one way or another.

[seer]

But even if it means the business has to close, you cannot justify maintaining an immoral (and possibly illegal) position on the basis of "it would be hard." Staying true to our moral code often places significant challenges. We've all been there in one way or another.

Except what you are doing Carp is putting a simple inconvenience over a deeply held moral conviction. The gay couples involved were not harmed, in any way, except they had their feelings hurt.

[demi-conservative]

you cannot justify maintaining an immoral

Immoral according to moral relativist code of yours.

Why do others have to follow? Sad!

[carpedm9587]

Except what you are doing Carp is putting a simple inconvenience over a deeply held moral conviction. The gay couples involved were not harmed, in any way, except they had their feelings hurt.

Except what the civil rights movement did was put a simple inconvenience over a deeply held conviction. The black people involved were not harmed, in any way, except they had their feelings hurt. After all, they could go eat at one of the black restaurants. And they still got a ride on the bus - it was just in a different set of seats.

[demi-conservative]

I speak out of my moral framework - as we all do. And we all think the way we assess morality is how everyone should be assessing morality. That does not make morality any less relative. If we thought the way someone else assessed a moral issue was "better" than ours, we would adopt that moral position instead.

Difference is most people point towards moral Reality, all you have is whatever you hold in head of yours at moment.

[seer]

Except what the civil rights movement did was put a simple inconvenience over a deeply held conviction. The black people involved were not harmed, in any way, except they had their feelings hurt. After all, they could go eat at one of the black restaurants. And they still got a ride on the bus - it was just in a different set of seats.

No, there was actual physical harm to many blacks. Never mind Jim Crow laws and voting rights. The inconvenience of not getting your cake decorated, when you could simply go around the corner and get it done, is not anything like what african americans went through.

[demi-conservative]

No, there was actual physical harm to many blacks. Never mind Jim Crow laws and voting rights. The inconvenience of not getting your cake decorated, when you could simply go around the corner and get it done, is not anything like what african americans went through.

At some point you need to stop appeal to sense of someone who sees no problem with bestiality.

[demi-conservative]

If 'people who fornicate with animals' becomes "protected class", prog carped will be calling people who refuse to sell wedding cake to them bigots.