FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe fired

[Stoic]

You're right, he only lied to investigators about it because he had nothing to hide.

In determining whether he lied to investigators, it is certainly fair to take into account whether he had any motive to lie to investigators.

[Stoic]

Yup. I read it as a stand alone document, free of outside interpretation.

I read it in light of the other evidence presented, about Trump withholding aid from Ukraine, and Rudy and his cohorts informing them that a public announcement of an investigation into the Bidens was what would get the aid released.

[Cow Poke]

You and I interpreted the transcript differently.

Which shows it's certainly not a slam dunk conclusion.

[Cow Poke]

It's not necessarily illegal for him to leak information to the media.

Absolutely and incredibly irresponsible and unprofessional. He showed himself to be a political hack.

[Stoic]

Which shows it's certainly not a slam dunk conclusion.

Right. If all you look at is the transcript of the phone call, it is reasonable to have some doubt about what Trump is communicating to Zelenskyy.

[oxmixmudd]

That is exactly the sort of reality-challenged, over-the-top, hyperbolic characterizations that Schiff hoped to use to describe the Ukraine call only for it to explode in his face when Trump declassified the call and released it so we could hear it for itself rather than Schiff's distorted take on it.

"Mafia Hit" is a sarcastic characterization of Trump's style, driven but the constant denial of his corruption found on this site. But even though a sarchastic characterization, it is still far closer to a true characterization of how operates than the denials that fill these pages. E.g. the coded language used to provide 'plausible deniability' in terms of directly ordering retribution against those that are 'out of favor' or 'in his way'.

The reality is that it is a delusion to try to pretend this is not how Trump works, or the depths to which his corruption goes. Like Trump regularly practices, the game is just to deny reality long enough people quit calling attention to it.

What I long for on this website are conservative Christians that will ditch the the fantasy and denials and actually for once say something like "Well yes trump does use very deceptive tactics and what McCabe was accused of was overblown specifically to seek revenge over his unwillingness to do what Trump wanted."

Because that is the simple truth of the matter.

Instead what we get are libelous slander of McCabe (or Fauci, or Comey etc etc etc) and the excusing of the immorality of Trump. In fact, all we ever get from conservative Christians on this site is a denial of (or the seriousness of) Trump's immoral and corrupt actions. "It was not so bad", "all politicians are corrupt", "the media just doesn't like Trump" and so on and so forth.

Is it possible that somewhere on TWEB we could find a thread with Conservative Christian voices in it that are actually honest about Trump?

I tend to think not, but feel free to surprise me.

[CivilDiscourse]

"Mafia Hit" is a sarcastic characterization of Trump's style, driven but the constant denial of his corruption found on this site. But even though a sarchastic characterization, it is still far closer to a true characterization of how operates than the denials that fill these pages. E.g. the coded language used to provide 'plausible deniability' in terms of directly ordering retribution against those that are 'out of favor' or 'in his way'.

The reality is that it is a delusion to try to pretend this is not how Trump works, or the depths to which his corruption goes. Like Trump regularly practices, the game is just to deny reality long enough people quit calling attention to it.

What I long for on this website are conservative Christians that will ditch the the fantasy and denials and actually for once say something like "Well yes trump does use very deceptive tactics and what McCabe was accused of was overblown specifically to seek revenge over his unwillingness to do what Trump wanted."

Because that is the simple truth of the matter.

Instead what we get are libelous slander of McCabe (or Fauci, or Comey etc etc etc) and the excusing of the immorality of Trump. In fact, all we ever get from conservative Christians on this site is a denial of (or the seriousness of) Trump's immoral and corrupt actions. "It was not so bad", "all politicians are corrupt", "the media just doesn't like Trump" and so on and so forth.

Is it possible that somewhere on TWEB we could find a thread with Conservative Christian voices in it that are actually honest about Trump?

I tend to think not, but feel free to surprise me.

I gave you the link of the IG report that explicitly outlines mccabes lies, spins, dodges, etc. over this. How you can look at that and say the charges were "trumped up" flies directly in the face of the honest discussion you say you want.

[Cow Poke]

"Mafia Hit" is a sarcastic characterization of Trump's style, driven but the constant denial of his corruption found on this site. But even though a sarchastic characterization, it is still far closer to a true characterization of how operates than the denials that fill these pages. E.g. the coded language used to provide 'plausible deniability' in terms of directly ordering retribution against those that are 'out of favor' or 'in his way'.

The reality is that it is a delusion to try to pretend this is not how Trump works, or the depths to which his corruption goes. Like Trump regularly practices, the game is just to deny reality long enough people quit calling attention to it.

What I long for on this website are conservative Christians that will ditch the the fantasy and denials and actually for once say something like "Well yes trump does use very deceptive tactics and what McCabe was accused of was overblown specifically to seek revenge over his unwillingness to do what Trump wanted."

Because that is the simple truth of the matter.

Instead what we get are libelous slander of McCabe (or Fauci, or Comey etc etc etc) and the excusing of the immorality of Trump. In fact, all we ever get from conservative Christians on this site is a denial of (or the seriousness of) Trump's immoral and corrupt actions. "It was not so bad", "all politicians are corrupt", "the media just doesn't like Trump" and so on and so forth.

Is it possible that somewhere on TWEB we could find a thread with Conservative Christian voices in it that are actually honest about Trump?

I tend to think not, but feel free to surprise me.

I have been honest about Trump, Jim. You have been absolutely obsessed with him.

[oxmixmudd]

I gave you the link of the IG report that explicitly outlines mccabes lies, spins, dodges, etc. over this. How you can look at that and say the charges were "trumped up" flies directly in the face of the honest discussion you say you want.

No it doesn't. That the Trump administration exaggerated these claims and pushed through this firing as revenge over McCabe not being willing to violate basic morality of constitutional principles is the reality. And that reality is not being recognized or admitted. And that reality completely overshadows the technical violations that could be attributed to McCabe, and therefore are the overriding component of the action itself. What I'm looking for is honest discussion that leads with that, not that ignores it. Sure, once the overriding reality takes its proper place in the discussion, there is perhaps a valid debate to be had over whether or not what McCabe could earn his dismissal in a normal environment. But without an acknowledgement of that overriding reality, the debate over those facts is effectively the sort of fodder that makes up Kangaroo courts and trials. Without that admission, McCabe can't be recognized for the possibility he did what he did in the just and honorable service of his country against a rogue president.

[Bill the Cat]

"Mafia Hit" is a sarcastic characterization of Trump's style, driven but the constant denial of his corruption found on this site. But even though a sarchastic characterization, it is still far closer to a true characterization of how operates than the denials that fill these pages. E.g. the coded language used to provide 'plausible deniability' in terms of directly ordering retribution against those that are 'out of favor' or 'in his way'.

The reality is that it is a delusion to try to pretend this is not how Trump works, or the depths to which his corruption goes. Like Trump regularly practices, the game is just to deny reality long enough people quit calling attention to it.

What I long for on this website are conservative Christians that will ditch the the fantasy and denials and actually for once say something like "Well yes trump does use very deceptive tactics and what McCabe was accused of was overblown specifically to seek revenge over his unwillingness to do what Trump wanted."

Because that is the simple truth of the matter.

Instead what we get are libelous slander of McCabe (or Fauci, or Comey etc etc etc) and the excusing of the immorality of Trump. In fact, all we ever get from conservative Christians on this site is a denial of (or the seriousness of) Trump's immoral and corrupt actions. "It was not so bad", "all politicians are corrupt", "the media just doesn't like Trump" and so on and so forth.

Is it possible that somewhere on TWEB we could find a thread with Conservative Christian voices in it that are actually honest about Trump?

I tend to think not, but feel free to surprise me.

Your anti-Trump hatred blinds you to any moderate position. Always has, apparently always will....

[oxmixmudd]

Your anti-Trump hatred blinds you to any moderate position. Always has, apparently always will....

It's actually the other way round Bill. The Conservatives hatred of the Democrats and MSM blinds them to what Trump is and the Danger he represents to our country. Many of them started out just thinking this guy would stand up to them. But with each each sin excused and with each violation of principle accommodated and defended, they have completely lost themselves. They have hidden their light under a bushel as it were and even what light they had is being stolen away from them. That is the simple reality here. No-one can hide the truth and be unaffected by that action. No-one can support corruption and not be corrupted themselves in doing so. And that is what is happening here.

We are at the point were all but the smallest cadre of Republicans have caved to Trump's big lie about the election, and are making excuses for Jan 6. We don't have all that far to go before what the republican party and about 30% of the US population - many of them Christians if one can believe that - becomes nothing more than a cult following their supposed savior to destruction of one form or another.

[Bill the Cat]

It's actually the other way round Bill.

No it isn't. Everyone sees it.

The Conservatives hatred of the Democrats and MSM blinds them to what Trump is and the Danger he represents to our country.

Most of us are over Trump and are looking forward. We see the REAL danger being caused by the Democrat in office and see the need to get them out as much as possible.

Many of them started out just thinking this guy would stand up to them. But with each each sin excused and with each violation of principle accommodated and defended, they have completely lost themselves.

The witch hunts began before he ever took office. Everything the man did was a sin to you. He could comb his hair and you'd flail your arms around calling him a fascist. Yet, I've seen nothing from you when Biden acts like a dictator. You took special glee in calling Trump a dictator wannabe, yet you have been eerily silent with a legitimate one like Biden.

They have hidden their light under a bushel as it were and even what light they had is being stolen away from them.

Nonsense. Pseudo spiritual claptrap and ripping verses out of context for your sick fascination with slamming Trump.

That is the simple reality here. No-one can hide the truth and be unaffected by that action. No-one can support corruption and not be corrupted themselves in doing so. And that is what is happening here.

Horse pooie. The simple reality is that you harbor hatred in your heart for another of God's fallen creation.

We are at the point were all but the smallest cadre of Republicans have caved to Trump's big lie about the election, and are making excuses for Jan 6.

No Republican worth their salt is defending the actions of the trespassers on Jan 6.

We don't have all that far to go before what the republican party and about 30% of the US population - many of them Christians if one can believe that - becomes nothing more than a cult following their supposed savior to destruction of one form or another.

Our savior is Jesus Christ, and for you to accuse your brethren of following another savior is blasphemous and Pharisaical.

[Cow Poke]

It's actually the other way round Bill. The Conservatives hatred of the Democrats and MSM ...

Jim, I'm a Conservative. I do not hate the Democrats or the MSM. I believe they are in collusion with one another, and I believe they are being manipulated by the prince of the power of the air, to the detriment of our country, and Christianity is in the cross-hairs.

But I don't hate them.

[CivilDiscourse]

No it doesn't. That the Trump administration exaggerated these claims and pushed through this firing as revenge over McCabe not being willing to violate basic morality of constitutional principles is the reality. And that reality is not being recognized or admitted. And that reality completely overshadows the technical violations that could be attributed to McCabe, and therefore are the overriding component of the action itself. What I'm looking for is honest discussion that leads with that, not that ignores it. Sure, once the overriding reality takes its proper place in the discussion, there is perhaps a valid debate to be had over whether or not what McCabe could earn his dismissal in a normal environment. But without an acknowledgement of that overriding reality, the debate over those facts is effectively the sort of fodder that makes up Kangaroo courts and trials. Without that admission, McCabe can't be recognized for the possibility he did what he did in the just and honorable service of his country against a rogue president.

I opened the discussion up with that. I used the NYAG politically charged investigation of Trump as a reasonable explanation that even a politically charged investigation can still be warranted. Instead of actually seeing that for what it was, you complained that two wrongs don't make a right.

You are on here demanding that we have an honest discussion, but at the same time, you are essentially saying that if we don't agree with you, we aren't being honest. That's not a way to have an honest discussion, and you are fooling yourself if you think that's the case.

[oxmixmudd]

I opened the discussion up with that. I used the NYAG politically charged investigation of Trump as a reasonable explanation that even a politically charged investigation can still be warranted. Instead of actually seeing that for what it was, you complained that two wrongs don't make a right.

You are on here demanding that we have an honest discussion, but at the same time, you are essentially saying that if we don't agree with you, we aren't being honest. That's not a way to have an honest discussion, and you are fooling yourself if you think that's the case.

I'm sure you see it that way. But the problem is more complex than that, and there is no real contradiction. It is in fact try that even if McCabe deserved discipline of some sort, the wrongful manner in which he was terminated would still, in fact be wrong. And when dealing with the sorts of rabid accusations against McCabe being made here, pointing that out was a truth I could bring to bear on the discussion that could silence as it were the slander. Two wrongs don't make a right. And that is not debatable. But - in light of the fact he has been exonerated and the entire incident exposed for what it was - the comments here have turned to trying to bolster the idea that restoration was somehow unjust, rather than finally recognizing how wrong what Trump did was.

The difficulty, as it always is when it comes to discussing Trump with Conservatives on this forum (and in general), is that any evil can be excused if it is Trump that commits it. Mostly because the hatred of Democrats is so irrational and bloated that many here would proverbially chose to eat bovine feces with Trump than a fine meal in a fine restraint with a democrat.