Originally posted by Teallaura
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Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
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A Sane Discussion About Gun Violence
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Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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I am not ignoring my own thread - but I have been pulled off to deal with an urgent need by a client. I may be off for several day.
A quick glance suggests that the discussion is still proceeding civilly. Very cool...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI am not ignoring my own thread - but I have been pulled off to deal with an urgent need by a client. I may be off for several day.
A quick glance suggests that the discussion is still proceeding civilly. Very cool...The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostThe risk of demonizing people with mental illnesses is ever-present in this debate, and people tend to do so without a second thought.Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?
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Originally posted by ke7ejx View PostI agree something needs to be addressed in regards to mental health but I'm not about to allow my rights to be curtailed when I am not a safety risk.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostAnd it WASN'T incorporated until a few years ago - which means for the vast majority of its history, it ONLY applied to the Federal government.
Yet gun control laws remain in effect - because the Court did NOT find - nor has it ever found - that the Second Amendment is a free pass for anyone and everyone to own whatever gun they like.
Yes, it's the law - but so are laws against jaywalking. If you don't understand the law, you cannot reasonably apply that law.
This will be the part where Jed who refuses to acknowledge laws he deems too complex will start arguing that he understands Constitutional law flawlessly and everyone else is a poopiehead.
Even Wikipedia is good enough for this one: "The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms and was adopted on December 15, 1791, as part of the first ten amendments contained in the Bill of Rights."
I don't think I've ever seen anyone argue that "the Second Amendment is a free pass for anyone and everyone to own whatever gun they like," and gun control laws are Constitutional as long as they are not unreasonable or prohibitively restrictive to the point that they infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens to bear arms. To that end, an outright gun ban or other excessive measure to curtail gun ownership would not be Constitutional.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostThis chart suggests that guns are, by far, more effective than hanging,
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-m...case-fatality/paper on the subjectI am Punkinhead.
"I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"
~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....
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Originally posted by ke7ejx View PostThe problem with suicide by firearm is that it is far from foolproof. I could put a rifle in my mouth or position a revolver between my parietal lobe and temporal lobe and survive it. If I did die, it could be a slow and painful death or if I survived I would have permanent damage. Whereas, if I were to suspend myself from a beam by my neck and no one cuts me down or resuscitate me, I will die every time. That sounds far more efficient to me.
But as Australia's statistics show, banning guns did nothing to decrease suicide rates, so like I said, including suicide by gun in these debates is a red herring at best.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by ke7ejx View PostThe problem with suicide by firearm is that it is far from foolproof. I could put a rifle in my mouth or position a revolver between my parietal lobe and temporal lobe and survive it. If I did die, it could be a slow and painful death or if I survived I would have permanent damage. Whereas, if I were to suspend myself from a beam by my neck and no one cuts me down or resuscitate me, I will die every time. That sounds far more efficient to me.
But I'm repeating myself here. Most of what I just stated above I've stated a few times throughout the thread.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI knew "the system" was screwy, but I didn't really know how bad it was til I was dealing with the guy who was having all kinds of problems, but couldn't get help because he wasn't suicidal or homicidal. I literally had to go before a judge on his behalf and swear out a warrant for his arrest, then take him to MHMR to get the help he needed.I am Punkinhead.
"I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"
~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostSo, just to make sure I have this right, you're arguing that suicide by hanging is a more efficient form of suicide than suicide by gun? If so, you're going against the literature, particularly the linked Journal of Epidemiology & Community Heath, which points out that firearms are the most lethal suicide method. Also, the time that it takes one to make the noose, find a place to hang it, insure it's not too long or too short, and then suffocate from death (assuming the rope doesn't break, or the knot isn't tied wrong preventing suffocation) is quite a bit longer than taking a gun out of a drawer, putting it one's mouth, and pulling the trigger. As Gold pointed out, most suicides are impulsive, attempted in the moment. There's more than enough time in a hanging for someone to talk themselves out of it, or get interrupted mid-process. Not nearly as much with a firearm.
But I'm repeating myself here. Most of what I just stated above I've stated a few times throughout the thread.I am Punkinhead.
"I have missed you, Oh Grand High Priestess of the Order of the Stirring Pot"
~ Cow Poke aka CP aka Creacher aka ke7ejx's apprentice....
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Originally posted by ke7ejx View PostLet's just say, I'm a results sort of person. If someone wants to end their life, they will. I could take away their gun and they'll reach for a noose, knife, pills, throw themselves in a river. It does not matter. All I'm arguing is that guns are not as foolproof as one would think. But you can make that as you will.
I would like to see him respond to MM's claim that suicides did not drop following gun law changes in Australia, however."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by ke7ejx View PostBlimey, that is screwy. Did it help?
I picked him up from the hospital, and he was a different man. We helped him find a job, a place to live, and he was doing great.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostI suspect most people think of suicide by gun as quick, painless, and foolproof.
But as Australia's statistics show, banning guns did nothing to decrease suicide rates, so like I said, including suicide by gun in these debates is a red herring at best.
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