Should Trump Resign Over "Hellhole" Comment?

[Teallaura]

Was being facetious. Doesn't matter what you want to call it, we just have different political, social, points of view. We liberals it would seem generally take the more christian perspective concerning the role of government, whereas conservatives take a more, well, how shall i say, a more satanic perspective I guess.

You're thinking Robin Hood, not Jesus. Jesus teaches us to give to the poor - to help those in need. Robin Hood came up with the 'rob the rich, give to the poor' thing.

government does such a poor job of getting people on their feet and such a great job of letting some slip through the cracks that using it as a charitable tool is highly questionable.

[Darth Executor]

In the fictional tale, he never agitated against it either.

Why would He? It was a non-issue.

JimL: Christ was a hardcore velociraptor trophy hunting advocate.
Me: Christ never once advocated for velociraptor trophy hunting.
JimL: In the fictional tale, he never agitated against it either.

[JimL]

The Christians lived by taking care of one another because they loved one another, not by government assistance, because of some tax plan.

The christian people lived by taking care of one another because that is the kind of governance they set up for themselves.

[Starlight]

Was being facetious. Doesn't matter what you want to call it, we just have different political, social, points of view. We liberals it would seem generally take the more christian perspective concerning the role of government, whereas conservatives take a more, well, how shall i say, a more satanic perspective I guess.

Yeah, I would say that while the bible is a bit contradictory on some things (e.g. warfare, divorce), there are some things that are pretty consistent that have obvious potential for political application:

1. Commands to welcome refugees and foreigners.
2. Commands to help the poor, needy, hungry, and sick.
3. Critiques of excessive wealth and money and greed.
4. Commands to have slaves and treat them well.
5. Commands not to intermarry with worshipers of other gods.

Obviously 1-3 are pretty consistent with modern left-wing politics, 4 is unacceptable in modern society, and 5 could have potential use in mitigating 1 slightly in terms of which countries refugees were being accepted from (e.g. for the US it could be consistent with banning Muslims and welcoming Dreamers and Mexicans and South Americans who are largely all Christian).

[JimL]

You're thinking Robin Hood, not Jesus. Jesus teaches us to give to the poor - to help those in need. Robin Hood came up with the 'rob the rich, give to the poor' thing.

government does such a poor job of getting people on their feet and such a great job of letting some slip through the cracks that using it as a charitable tool is highly questionable.

Tea, correct me if I'm wrong, and not that I begrudge it of you, but aren't you on government assistance right now?

[Teallaura]

The christian people lived by taking care of one another because that is the kind of governance they set up for themselves.

Um, Jim, that's so far off as to be irrational. Early Christians routinely took in abandoned babies (exposure was a thing with a lot of ancient cultures - including the Greeks and Romans). Modern hospitals trace in large part to Christian invention (they do have a Roman precursor but there's a reason so many hospitals have denominations or saints in their names). Missionaries still carry medical and charitable work around the world.

Christians also lead in the earliest socio/political movements both in the US and Europe. The first abolition - and then the final - of slavery was accomplished by Christians.

But in large part, they set up their own organizations and went to work, rather than use government to do the work instead. most Christians would agree with using government at what it does best - and using it as a temporary safety net. it's the creating lifelong dependency on government largess that they think is a bad pan.

[Cow Poke]

I want to take the time to say kudos for your post here.

Ironically it wouldn't take much to expand that into a great little sermon on living out Christian values in businesses (well for use in churches in my country anyway, the US 'Christians' don't seem to have nearly as much interest as US atheists do when it comes to living out moral values).

And there goes that faulty manure spreader again, throwing the whole load all at once!

[Teallaura]

Tea, correct me if I'm wrong, and not that I begrudge it of you, but aren't you on government assistance right now?

Disability benefits that I paid into as a tax payer for more than 25 years.

In the first eight months I was unemployed, I applied for unemployment (denied) and food stamps (denied four times). The second time I was unemployed, it took five months to get my benefits - and I've paid toward those - and did finally receive food stamps for five months. The majority of what kept me from starvation was charity from churches and individuals.

You tell me - did the government serve me well?

I don't oppose the idea of government playing a role - but I don't think it does a good enough job really helping people. Government just throws money at problems and the church has picked up that bad habit.

EDIT: That came out sharper than intended - I have no issue with you asking the question but I still have some rather raw issues with how the government 'helped'.

[JimL]

You're thinking Robin Hood, not Jesus. Jesus teaches us to give to the poor - to help those in need. Robin Hood came up with the 'rob the rich, give to the poor' thing.

Then you should support the kind of government that takes care of the poor, that helps those in need. It's very simple really.

government does such a poor job of getting people on their feet and such a great job of letting some slip through the cracks that using it as a charitable tool is highly questionable.

I don't think it's questionable at all, it's a necessity, and in general it works, both for the good of those in need of assistance, as well as the good of society as a whole.

[Starlight]

You tell me - did the government serve me well?

Doesn't sound like it. That's why I think it's so important that Republicans not be allowed to cripple these government services like they have been doing, and that government is actually allowed to be efficient and functional and help people properly.

[Starlight]

And there goes that faulty manure spreader again, throwing the whole load all at once!

At this point I just assume that is code for "wow, that's a good point, which deeply embarrasses me. I guess I could acknowledge the point and do some soul searching and rethink my life choices... hmm, no. I'll just yell 'Squirrel!' instead."

[Teallaura]

Then you should support the kind of government that takes care of the poor, that helps those in need. It's very simple really.

I don't think it's questionable at all, it's a necessity, and in general it works, both for the good of those in need of assistance, as well as the good of society as a whole.

um, please see my edit - I didn't see your reply until afterwards.

No, I wouldn't grant 'necessity' - that the work get done is necessary, that government do it all remains in question.

And I don't object to a governmental role - but leaving the entire matter to government is foolish - this isn't something government does well enough.

[Teallaura]

Doesn't sound like it. That's why I think it's so important that Republicans not be allowed to cripple these government services like they have been doing, and that government is actually allowed to be efficient and functional and help people properly.

Most of what happened to me happened under Obama - and the policies currently in place are largely Democrat in origin - it's nonsense to blame the Republicans for policies Democrats helped craft, or did craft, and agreed to.

I finally actually received benefits while Trump was president - I didn't receive benefits under Obama except for one month and that was taken away.

[JimL]

um, please see my edit - I didn't see your reply until afterwards.

No, I wouldn't grant 'necessity' - that the work get done is necessary, that government do it all remains in question.

And I don't object to a governmental role - but leaving the entire matter to government is foolish - this isn't something government does well enough.

Good, glad you didn't take it the wrong way. I'm glad to pay my taxes for such purposes and believe government could do a lot better in this regard if we didn't have one party always trying to flub up the works so that they can give trillion dollar tax breaks to their wealthy puppeteers while knocking 13 million people off of healthcare. Hope you're not one of them.

[Teallaura]

Good, glad you didn't take it the wrong way. I'm glad to pay my taxes for such purposes and believe government could do a lot better in this regard if we didn't have one party always trying to flub up the works so that they can give trillion dollar tax breaks to their wealthy puppeteers while knocking 13 million people off of healthcare. Hope you're not one of them.

Partisan politics works both ways - it's a necessary evil. I think as long as we play the game as if it were football and root only for our side, everyone eventually loses.