Assessment of Mr. Trump

[carpedm9587]

Oh, that's handy. So anytime a favored politician is accused of lying about his campaign promises, we can just say, "He didn't lie, he simply made an incorrect prediction."

Read the rest of the posts.

[rogue06]

Umm... I keep hearing this one. There are a few differences.

• First, Obama made this comment about both the doctor and the plan before the bill was finalized, so he wasn't lying - he was predicting. He didn't control the final bill. (I am not going to change this, but I do need to amend it. After I wrote this, I found several sources that showed Obama continued to say this well after the bill was passed. His error/lie was to make the statement so definitive.)
• Second, the vast majority of people were avble to keep both their doctors and their plan
• Third, the reason others couldn't was because the companies discontinued the plans due to elements that did not meet the needs of the act. The vast majority of these were replaced with superior plans
• Fourth, Obama owned this mistatement and acknowledged he had spoken far too broadly and to definitively too early in the process - and he apologized for it.

I do not like many of Obama's policies - but this one is just an ingrained, knee-jerk reaction from the right without a significant amount of merit. At the end of the day, a fraction of the overall people displaced were displaced in a negative fashion. But the right seized on this, and harps on it to this day, as a form of "what-about-ism." Every politician makes mistatements. Every politician spins and exagerates. Frankly, I think every politician lies in some circumstances. After all, they're human and humans eventually lie. Pointing out that someone else made a mis-statement or lied does not excuse what Trump does day in and day out, at a rate that puts pretty much everyone I know or have ever heard of to shame. The man is a cumpulsive, admitted, chronic liar. If reality isn't what he wants it to be, he makes it up, and then insists he's right even if he is presented with video/photographic/audio evidence of his lie.

When some proclaims "If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period" that addition of "period" at the end of the sentence makes it very hard to swallow that it was a mere "prediction" but was instead a pledge.

Moreover, Obama was still making that claim after he signed it into law so let's drop this "before the bill was finalized" malarkey. On April 1, 2010 a week after signing the bill Obama told a crowd in Portland, Maine that Obamacare's critics will



Over two months after that, the Obama Administration, through Kathleen Sebelius (Obama's Secretary of Health and Human Services) was assuring the public on June 14, 2010:

"The bottom line is that under the Affordable Care Act, if you like your doctor and plan, you can keep them."

Even over two years after he signed Obamacare into law, during the first presidential debate on October 3, 2012 Obama was still proclaiming:

"If you've got health insurance, it doesn't mean a government takeover. You keep your own insurance. You keep your own doctor."

Considering that by this point it was obvious to all that people were losing both their plans and doctors, at what point are you going to concede he was lying when he told us

"If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what."

Not long after^[1] the "fact checkers" at the solidly pro-Obama Politifact couldn't ignore it and gave Obama a "Pants on Fire" rating (the lowest rating on their Truth-o-Meter scale), and later proclaimed it the "Lie of the Year"

But it's all good since Obama admitted it was codswallop and eventually apologized -- IIRC, in 2014. Long, long after everyone knew it was a steaming pile of B.S.








1 IIRC, waiting until just after the 2012 election to do so.

[carpedm9587]

When some proclaims "If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period" that addition of "period" at the end of the sentence makes it very hard to swallow that it was a mere "prediction" but was instead a pledge.

Moreover, Obama was still making that claim after he signed it into law so let's drop this "before the bill was finalized" malarkey. On April 1, 2010 a week after signing the bill Obama told a crowd in Portland, Maine that Obamacare's critics will



Over two months after that, the Obama Administration, through Kathleen Sebelius (Obama's Secretary of Health and Human Services) was assuring the public on June 14, 2010:

"The bottom line is that under the Affordable Care Act, if you like your doctor and plan, you can keep them."

Even over two years after he signed Obamacare into law, during the first presidential debate on October 3, 2012 Obama was still proclaiming:

"If you've got health insurance, it doesn't mean a government takeover. You keep your own insurance. You keep your own doctor."

Considering that by this point it was obvious to all that people were losing both their plans and doctors, at what point are you going to concede he was lying when he told us

"If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period. No one will take it away, no matter what."

Not long after^[1] the "fact checkers" at the solidly pro-Obama Politifact couldn't ignore it and gave Obama a "Pants on Fire" rating (the lowest rating on their Truth-o-Meter scale), and later proclaimed it the "Lie of the Year"

But it's all good since Obama admitted it was codswallop and eventually apologized -- IIRC, in 2014. Long, long after everyone knew it was a steaming pile of B.S.








1 IIRC, waiting until just after the 2012 election to do so.

You should read the rest of my posts.

[rogue06]

Oh, that's handy. So anytime a favored politician is accused of lying about his campaign promises, we can just say, "He didn't lie, he simply made an incorrect prediction."

Actually the claim that he only made the claim before it was finalized is false and took all of about 15 seconds on Google to find statements by Obama still making that claim after he signed it into law -- in one case well over two years after. See post #227 above.

[rogue06]

You should read the rest of my posts.

I was responding to the obviously incorrect claims you made in that post. Did you admit that your entire premise, that it was just some prediction made before the bill was finalized was a load of hogwash?

[carpedm9587]

I was responding to the obviously incorrect claims you made in that post. Did you admit that your entire premise, that it was just some prediction made before the bill was finalized was a load of hogwash?

Acrtually, my adjustment is that Obama held on to this absolute well past the time it had been shown to be false, so he drifted into that space of continuing tomake a claim that had been shown to be false. What was false was the "absolute" nature of his claim - and he should have knwn better. The vast majority of people kept their policies, and kept their doctors. But Obama framed it as an absolute (everyone), which was both false and politically stupid.

[JimL]

This is silly Comparing the ethical character of Trump to that of Obama is laughable. If all of you Trump supporters here can't see the difference between the two of them, well then, that tells us much about you.

[demi-conservative]

It's amazing how much conservatives whine about Trump's twitter, one of the better parts of his presidency. This is why conservatives are losers.

They gave up, only have desperate hope for deus ex machina 'Holy Spirit revival'.

Sad!!!

[demi-conservative]

Acrtually, my adjustment is that Obama held on to this absolute well past the time it had been shown to be false, so he drifted into that space of continuing tomake a claim that had been shown to be false. What was false was the "absolute" nature of his claim - and he should have knwn better. The vast majority of people kept their policies, and kept their doctors. But Obama framed it as an absolute (everyone), which was both false and politically stupid.

So he lied!!!

[Cow Poke]

This is silly Comparing the ethical character of Trump to that of Obama is laughable. If all of you Trump supporters here can't see the difference between the two of them, well then, that tells us much about you.

Both Trump AND Obama won when running against Hillary! What does that say about her ethical character?

[JimL]

Both Trump AND Obama won when running against Hillary! What does that say about her ethical character?

It's says nothing, unless you think nearly the same amount of support in both races, 3 million more votes for Clinton than for Trump in the latter case, tells you something about the comparitive ethical characters of the candidates. Trump won because he was a better con man, and his Russian partners were better fake news propagandists, than Clinton was a politician.

[JimL]

So he lied!!!

No, we don't know if he lied or not. But even if he did, at least it was for a good cause, unlike Trumps lies which, like your boss's, Vlad Putin, are blatant and self serving.

[carpedm9587]

So he lied!!!

If he did so intentionally - yes.

[carpedm9587]

Both Trump AND Obama won when running against Hillary! What does that say about her ethical character?

Absolutely nothing.

[Cow Poke]

Absolutely nothing.

EGGzackly.