Originally posted by Roy
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I no longer consider myself pro-life
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Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.
MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.
seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWhy eat alone?
Gimme that popcorn!
No one messes with my popcorn...The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by guacamole View PostThere are find points here worth examining:
I'm not sure that the "deliberately targeting" gives us moral cover. If we take an action that directly leads to an innocent person's death, are we in the clear because we didn't mean to do it?
And what do you mean by "inconvenience" to the family or the woman? I suppose that rules out prophylactic abortion, but what about a single mother who works part time and cannot lose the hourly pay, should it come to that. Is that merely an inconvenience?
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Originally posted by guacamole View PostWhy shouldn't a woman whose family is going to be devastated by an additional pregnancy, for whatever reason, be allowed to kill a child
(my folks adopted my sister. they had to get the law in South Africa changed to do it because at the time it was illegal to adopt a child from whose birth family belonged to a different denomination to the adoptive family.)Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
"...he [Doherty] is no historian and he is not even conversant with the historical discussions of the very matters he wants to pontificate on."
-Ben Witherington III
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Originally posted by Roy View PostI just discovered that the primary target was the much smaller city of Kokura, and Nagasaki was bombed only because Kokura was obscured by clouds.
This 13-Year-Old Is Scared When the Sky Is Blue Because of Our Drones:
"I no longer love blue skies. In fact, I now prefer grey skies. The drones do not fly when the skies are grey," a 13-year-old Pakistani boy named Zubair told Congress on Tuesday. Zubair was 12 when he and his younger sister, Nabeela, were injured in a drone strike near North Waziristan last October. "When sky brightens, drones return and we live in fear,""I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostClouds save lives still today...
This 13-Year-Old Is Scared When the Sky Is Blue Because of Our Drones:
"I no longer love blue skies. In fact, I now prefer grey skies. The drones do not fly when the skies are grey," a 13-year-old Pakistani boy named Zubair told Congress on Tuesday. Zubair was 12 when he and his younger sister, Nabeela, were injured in a drone strike near North Waziristan last October. "When sky brightens, drones return and we live in fear,"Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Support for drone bombing programs (with a high rate of hitting civilians) was one point of agreement for candidates Clinton and Trump. I chose to target Clinton's support leading up to the election; this backfired as Trump has ratcheted it up to unprecedented levels.
My liberal friends were not particularly pleased by me bringing this up. One directly asked me what I hoped to achieve by talking about it. Well, duh, I want it to stop."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostObama loved those (this was from 4 years ago).
Unfortunately Trump has ramped up the strikes by an order of magnitude."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Roy View PostKilling some-one now in case they try and kill you in 15 years time is not self-defence.Had it been my decision, I think I'd have dropped the bombs near the cities, not on them."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf we take an innocent life that is threatening ours then we are in the clear.
In war things are murkier because it is not one-on-one in all cases. If a child is coming at you with a bomb on his chest, you can kill him in self-defense. You can't just walk into a village and decide to shoot an enemy child. You can target his village because it has a military outpost there and he can be collateral damage because not to take out the depot puts your entire unit in danger.
yes it is. And she can give the baby up for adoption if it is too much of one. It sure isn't endangering her life which is required for "self-defense"
In any case, we come back to where we started with Starlight. Starlight, you, and I all think it's is permissible, for various reasons and at various times, to kill children.
fwiw,
guacamole
fwiw"Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
Hear my cry, hear my shout,
Save me, save me"
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Originally posted by Raphael View PostBecause there is an alternative solution that means the child doesn't have to die. It's called adoption and there are plenty of people out there who can't have children (for whatever reason) who would be happy to adopt that child and give it a family.
(my folks adopted my sister. they had to get the law in South Africa changed to do it because at the time it was illegal to adopt a child from whose birth family belonged to a different denomination to the adoptive family.)
fwiw,
guacamole"Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
Hear my cry, hear my shout,
Save me, save me"
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostClouds save lives still today...
This 13-Year-Old Is Scared When the Sky Is Blue Because of Our Drones:
"I no longer love blue skies. In fact, I now prefer grey skies. The drones do not fly when the skies are grey," a 13-year-old Pakistani boy named Zubair told Congress on Tuesday. Zubair was 12 when he and his younger sister, Nabeela, were injured in a drone strike near North Waziristan last October. "When sky brightens, drones return and we live in fear,"
It seems like what people are saying in this thread is that killing that kid is no worse morally than killing a dog--so long as he is standing close enough to a terrorist."Down in the lowlands, where the water is deep,
Hear my cry, hear my shout,
Save me, save me"
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Originally posted by guacamole View PostI'm not sure what you mean. An innocent life that is threatening ours would seem not innocent.
And that was the root of my critique of the moral justification of collateral damage: We CAN kill children so long as doing so benefits us and ours in a narrow set of circumstances--war and conflict. That is functionally what is going on here.
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Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View PostAnd you would have condemned millions to die in an invasion.
The moral equation here seems fairly clear.Last edited by carpedm9587; 12-22-2017, 11:08 AM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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