Daniel Shavers killer walks free.

[demi-conservative]

What the heck is wrong with you? Why would you use a video of a grieving family to instigate a fellow Christian? That's sick man..

It is article about another example of issue he cares a lot about.

You need to grow up

• Edited by a Moderator •

Moderated By: QuantaFille

You know better by now.

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[KingsGambit]

The officer appeared to have reason to believe his life and the life of his fellow officer was in danger. Therefore, it appears he acted in self-defense. Therefore, the charge of murder was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Even someone with a mail-order law degree should understand this.

How was this a reasonable conclusion? He was wearing basketball shorts. It would have been obvious if he had a gun in the pocket

[demi-conservative]

You need to grow up.

You need to stop smearing!!!

demi shares article of incident, similar to incident shared in post #1 of thread
Adrift: 'oh, you're trying to use video of grieving family'.

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Moderated By: QuantaFille

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[Sparko]

These police murders will continue to happen so long as Christians like Sparko and Mountain man keep condoning them.

[Sparko]

Again they used the exact same excuse: The unarmed, completely innocent man was making movements around his waistline (this time at his own front door). In reality, that is simply not a biblical justification to kill someone. The people who condone this police policy have blood on their hands. It needs to change. And the officers at fault need to be put to death.

wow. You obviously don't know the details of this incident nor did you bother to watch the video in question. There was no "front door" - this was in the hallway of a hotel. You have no idea what the details are yet you feel qualified to judge the police in the situation? You are either just someone who hates the police or an insane troll.

The cop who fired should not have shot, it was nerves and the guy not obeying orders, and from the cops point of view, he could not see his waistband just that he was reaching backwards. It should have been handled differently (like cow poke said, probably by making him stay still and going to him instead of making him move) but it was not murder.

Here is what the cop saw:

ScreenHunter_.jpg

[Adrift]

wow. You obviously don't know the details of this incident nor did you bother to watch the video in question. There was no "front door" - this was in the hallway of a hotel. You have no idea what the details are yet you feel qualified to judge the police in the situation? You are either just someone who hates the police or an insane troll.

The cop who fired should not have shot, it was nerves and the guy not obeying orders, and from the cops point of view, he could not see his waistband just that he was reaching backwards. It should have been handled differently (like cow poke said, probably by making him stay still and going to him instead of making him move) but it was not murder.

Here is what the cop saw:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25769[/ATTACH]

I think he's referring to the incident that demi-conservative posted about, about the guy who got swatted by the Call of Duty kid.

[Darth Executor]

wow. You obviously don't know the details of this incident nor did you bother to watch the video in question. There was no "front door" - this was in the hallway of a hotel. You have no idea what the details are yet you feel qualified to judge the police in the situation? You are either just someone who hates the police or an insane troll.

The cop who fired should not have shot, it was nerves and the guy not obeying orders, and from the cops point of view, he could not see his waistband just that he was reaching backwards. It should have been handled differently (like cow poke said, probably by making him stay still and going to him instead of making him move) but it was not murder.

Here is what the cop saw:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25769[/ATTACH]

I know the details of the incident. The cop who shot him should be in prison for murder, the idiot barking stupid orders should be his cellmate.

[Sparko]

I think he's referring to the incident that demi-conservative posted about, about the guy who got swatted by the Call of Duty kid.

OK never mind. been away from this thread for about a week.

[Cow Poke]

I'm not going to re-read all 120+ posts, so this may have been said before, but what really upsets me about this is how preventable it was.

There were SIX officers in the hallway, and they allowed this incident to be dragged out for nearly FIVE minutes, during which time a wide range of complicated and conflicting commands were yelled at a man who was intoxicated, yet trying to be compliant at every step. You can tell he was scared to death.

I still train with a swat team, my son-in-law is their commander. The job of the swat team (and even any officers initially responding) is to take control of the situation and bring order out of chaos. That didn't happen here.

I've heard it argued that the officers were concerned somebody else might be down the hall, but there were SIX OFFICERS lined up, and plenty of opportunity for cover while one or two of them went and cuffed the suspect. (One of the officers may have been removed from action because of the subdued woman being taken in custody, but that still leaves FIVE officers, guns drawn, at the ready)

Rather than have the man lay face down, and somebody approach and cuff him, they order him to crawl forward. At several points, both suspects tried to ask questions for clarification, and were shouted to "shut up - this is not a conversation". One of the things that is hammered into our officers is "talk to them like they're people". These people were not talked to like people. It was more like they were enemy combatants on a battlefield.

When the guy is told to crawl forward, you'll notice that this means he approaches the woman's purse, which she had dropped about 4 feet in front of him. No officer in his right mind would order somebody to crawl toward something like that, where there could conceivably be a weapon or anything.

From a police incident report written by a Mesa Police Officer watching the video...



One thing that I can't seem to get clarification in is that the officer writing the incident report refers to "16 minutes and 40 seconds into the recording" as the time just before the fatal shooting. I have to assume that we're watching 5 of the final minutes of that 16 minutes, which probably began as the officers arrived on the scene and were setting up. I really don't know.

The incident report continues...



Again, "in the moment" (and trying not to "Monday morning quarterback") it's entirely possible that the officer thought Shaver was reaching for a gun, but in my opinion, highly unlikely.

The fact is that only ONE of the five (or six) officers fired. In a situation where 5 or 6 officers believe there is a credible, immediate and deadly threat, there is usually a hail of gunfire from multiple officers, as each is reacting to what he sees at the time, and there's no coordination "OK, you guys hold your fire, I'll take the shot", etc. It's usually just a hail of gunfire. But only one officer fired.

Again, I'm about as pro-police as they come, still serving as police chaplain and closely involved with two police departments, city and county, along with a multi-jurisdictional task force. I've been keeping up with after action reports, and this situation has actually been used in a couple of training episodes I've attended.

It is pretty much described as "a really good example of a really bad police action".